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  • Writer's pictureIzzy Meakin

Ep 12: Let the sorting begin. Placing Jane Austen's Heroines into their Harry Potter Houses pt1

Updated: Apr 20, 2022

Welcome to the Twelfth episode of the What the Austen? podcast! I'm your host Izzy, and I am joined by my part-time co-host and fellow Janeite Caily from @half_agony_half_hope. In this episode, we will be playing the roll of the sorting hat and placing the wonderful Austen heroines into their houses. We will look at a primary and secondary house for each, and convince one an other of our choices. Me and Caily both love Harry Potter and Austen so this was such a fun episode! This will be the first part of a two part episode series, we will cover Pride and Prejudice and Sense and Sensibility in this episode and the next part will be out in May, Ep 13.

Part 2 out in May!

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Episode Transcript

Izzy 0:19

Hi, Janeites and welcome to episode 12 of the What The Austen podcast. We have a really fun episode lined up today. And my part-time cohost Caily from @half_agony_half_hope is back on the podcast. So welcome back, Caily.

Caily 0:33

Thank you so much for having me back. I'm so excited for this episode.

Izzy 0:38

Yeah. So today's episode, we're actually going to be playing the role of the sorting hat and placing all beloved Austen heroines into their Hogwarts houses. So yes, this will be a Harry Potter X Jane Austen episode. I really love doing episodes like this. I did do the Disney princess one with Ann, last year, and it really means a lot to me to be able to bring together different fictional loves. So I love Disney princesses. I love Harry Potter and it's great that I can kind of combine them and bring them into the podcast, which is basically, obviously my podcast is about Jane Austen, but it's, it's just great to bring it over elements of my personality as well. And, I know so many of the people who are listening and my guests also have loves for other fictional characters and Caily’s a big Harry Potter fan. That's why she's here with me today.

Caily 1:25

Yes. Jane Austen and Harry Potter, two of my greatest loves. So this episode is a dream come true to be able to talk about both of them at the same time.

Izzy 1:34

I love that. It's amazing. So something really exciting about this particular episode is, um, when this is released, it's actually a, not to the date, but to the month it's a year since I started the podcast. So, yeah, the first ever episode came out in April, 2021, and that was actually with El, Caily. It was, the persuasion one.

Caily 2:00

Yes. Oh my gosh. This is just so nostalgic and amazing. I remember when you were talking to me brainstorming this idea of doing a Jane Austen podcast. And I loved that so much because I'd been searching for Jane Austen podcasts previously, and I couldn't find very many and I was so excited that you were doing it. And then I remember this episode came out with on persuasion and it was so good. And then you invited me to do the following episode. And our first episode together was the Colonel Brandon episode. And I remember that was the first time that we had seen each other face to face, you know, cause we had always connected over Instagram, but we finally got to meet virtually and then someday we'll get to meet in person to.

Izzy 2:49

No, absolutely. It's like, it's just so nice to see it come like full circle. And it's just lovely to see how much it's grown as well. Like how much support there's been for the podcast and every sin. Like I really appreciate it because, um, I really do put like a lines here, like a love, like heart and soul goes into this. I love making like this content, but also, um, yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm excited to see how it, how it goes on and Kaley's going to keep coming back. Cause I keep bringing it back

Caily 3:18

I love it. And it's been amazing to see all of the comments and messages that you've gotten from people all over the world. You know, I just, I love seeing the comments from Boston fans from all over and just seeing everyone's insight and reactions to the podcast. And how many listens did you say you got to? Was it I saw in your story that you, yeah,.

Izzy 3:44

Yeah. I w over three and a half thousand now, so yeah. Like, which is amazing because I, Janie felt my moment be the only person that listens in and actually some of you guys are more loyal to the club than my mother is. So, uh it's um, it's like good to see, you know, that those people listening. I mean, I'd probably do, even if that wasn't fun, it's just nice to know that people want to like listen to like Austen content and um, yeah, I love it.

Caily 4:11

It has been honestly, one of the highlights of my year to, to be a part of it. And I've loved seeing all of your creative ideas and just seeing how the podcast has continued to evolve and all of the different people you've brought in and their expertise and yeah, it's been amazing.

Izzy 4:30

I know they it's fun. So, I mean, we'll agree FSA to kind of like a great anniversary episode to do a Harry Potter, Jane Austen one, this episode is going to be slightly different in the sense that I learned from the Disney princess lawn. We have so much content to cover. I'm actually going to split it into two. So this will be part one. And we're going to cover pride and prejudice today and sense and sensibility. And then pots, you have this like episode series, which will come out in may, we'll cover the final novels and heroines. So we'll do Anna. We'll do persuasion. We'll do new, we'll find a hobby and Mansfield park. So the reason this has only got two novels on their side is because we're really going to get into detail about the houses. Just so we can really set the stage, but also, in purchase sense sensibility, we always have so much to say about that. I mean, pride and prejudice for obvious reasons is, you know, we know that once they well, but, um, since sensibilities, your favorite isn't at Caily. So we always have a look say that to.

Caily 5:27

It is since then, sensibility has always been my favorite. I love, I love that book so much. Um, and we also talked about the fact that in addition to having a primary house for each character, we thought having a secondary house would also be good to talk about because it adds a level of nuance and dynamism to, to the characters.

Izzy 5:50

But to start with, I'd love to hear Caily, what is your favourite Harry Potter book and your favourite Harry Potter film? That would be really great to know.

Caily 6:00

So favourite book is prisoner of Azkaban ban, Sirius black and Remus. Lupin are two of my favourite characters. And I just love when the marauders map is introduced. And I love hearing about Carrie's dad's friends at school. I've always been fascinated by them. And I always wished that JK Rowling would write one prequel where we'd hear more about James serious Lupin Petigrew, Snape, Lily, their experience at school. I've always been really fascinated about that. And I was thinking about the movies, to be honest, I've read the books more than I've watched the films, but I think I also like the prisoner of Azkaban band film the best as well. I think it's really well done. Love the scene where her mind punches Draco in the face. I think that's the only thing the most,.

Izzy 6:56

Yes. Griffindore moves right there. Yeah, no, absolutely. It's actually my brother. He really likes that one as well because he likes how kind of dark the aesthetic of the film, I think it is actually the directors different for that one and I think, or the producer or something. And that's why it really shows like it is very different than the first, um, two. Um, so yeah, absolutely. Um, so my favourite book is actually order the Phoenix. That's my favourite book, even though it's like Masa, if I was like so shocked because like I would go so long, but, that is actually my favourite book. And my favourite film is, goblet of fire. That was such a comfort watch. Yeah. Honestly, I love the Harry Potter films as well. It's such a con for watch for me. If you, if you ask my boyfriend, I watched them so much just on repeat it doesn't matter to me. I'd be like, that was Twilight as well. But, yeah, I love a fantasy film where you watch it. Um, that's my go-to.

Caily 7:53

Well, for the order of the Phoenix, one of my favourite scenes in the entire Harry Potter series is when Fred and George take down this school fighting back against umbrage finals. That is just unbelievable. So yeah, there are a lot of really amazing parts of the fifth book.

Izzy 8:10

Yeah, absolutely. I think so. Do you have a favourite character?

Caily 8:16

Oh wow. Lupin. I have always loved Lupin. I, I just love how humble and calm and rational he is. I think he has such a good heart and I think he's such a good mentor to Harry. I love the scenes and the prisoner of Azkaban ban where he helps Harry develop his Patronus. Yeah, I think Lupin, how about you?

Izzy 8:41

Yeah, I do really like Lupin and I think, I think because his own stories like quite tragic and sad and he's got a lot to deal with himself. I just love how supposed to be, can still be Harry and I think he is the more composed out of him and Sirius. So I think they make a good team and they both kind of offer hurry what he needs, the more level headed, calm parent. And then the more outgoing, exciting parent.

Caily 9:10

That's such a good way of looking at it. Yeah. They're both father figures to Harry in different ways, but you're right. I think lupins story so tragic yet he has this positivity optimism about him and this level of resilience. So.

Izzy 9:24

Yeah, I agree. My favourite character actually is Luna. Um, I actually, it's on my bookshelf behind, I just love Luna so much. I think she's just, she's so unique, like independent and she just she's different, but she totally embraces that and she doesn't care what other people think. And I just really love that about her. Like she's so quirky and yeah, and I think Lucy would think she’s a bit weird I love her. She's great.

Caily 9:52

She's so endearing and you're right. She has this sense of self where she's not afraid to be, be an individual and be independent. And I think that's such a good message for teenagers and young people growing up. And she's also people underestimate her because they think she's loony, you know, they call her loony, but she's so wise when it comes to the big things she gives the best advice.

Izzy 10:16

Absolutely. And I think actually she's a really important friend to how are you as well? And I think because she's different and Harry's different in his own way. I think they find like a common ground that maybe they don't actually, both of them don't really fit in that they both can't be understood by everybody. And I think that's why they understand each other.

Caily 10:36

Absolutely. I think they both, Luna is another one who is very optimistic and positive, but both Harry and Luna have undergone intense tragedy that other people don't understand. Like the fact that she's the one who tells him that he's not crazy for seeing the festivals. They both have had parents who have died and they have a special bond over that that, you know, Ron in her mind, he just can't understand.

Izzy 11:04

Yeah, absolutely. I agree. Okay. So, like I said, we're going to intro all of the full houses. Um, what I'm going to do is start with Gryffindor. So, the sorting hats words about Griffindore go such, you might belong to Gryffindor, where dwell the brave at heart they're daring nerve and chivalry sets Griffin doors apart. So, Griffindor kind of like the main house in the Harry Potter series, I'd say because, all three protagonists are in Gryffindor.

Caily 11:37

And obviously the fact that Harry's in Gryffindor makes a pretty significant impact. It's the house that we see the most off. Uh, we see that common room the most, um, yeah, you have some other floats on Gryffindor, which you'd like to share. Sure. I w I was thinking it's important to talk about the strengths of Gryffindor, but then also the weaknesses so that we can really understand the full character. So Gryffindor I wrote down the external trait is bravery. The core value is justice. The flaw is an impulsivity, and then the element is fire. So just some common traits of Gryffindor. The biggest one is bravery. Gryffindor have a high sense of honour justice. They're ready to jump in and help the underdog. And they have a lot of nerve and daring. They're the protectors, they're the defenders of honour. And they have a huge ability to focus on the difference between right and wrong and defend what's right in their eyes. They often challenge authority. They're very, they have a great sense of heart. Um, and then I would say the weaknesses of Gryffindor, they can often be impulsive. Uh, they think before they act before thinking, they can be reckless a little bit hotheaded and short-tempered anything you'd want to add to Gryffindor.

Izzy 13:13

You literally covered all of the points I had on, and they're kind of that animal symbol is a Lion, which I think really represents them again, not bravery, but also, um, a bit of that kind of hot headedness, that recklessness that comes into it as well. So, um, but also the protectors, like, I feel like they really stand in that, in that, um, position where it's like that they're willing to stand up for, for people and to stand up for what's right.

Caily 13:41

That's right. And adding onto that, I read one article about Griffin doors and someone explained to them as being the social justice warriors. A lot of people don't understand why her mind is in Gryffindor, over Ravenclaw, but she's the defender of the house sells. And so she's advocating Gryffindor is advocate for the underdog and protect the underdog. So I thought that was an interesting way of looking at it.

Izzy 14:06

Oh yeah, no, I love that. That's such a good point. Um, okay, fabulous. So the next house that we're going to intro is Ravenclaw. So, the sorting hats words on Ravenclaw go yes, in wise old Raven claw, if you've already mind where those of wits and learning will always find that kind. So that's what the sorting hat says about, Ravenclaw. So I'll pass over to Caily again.

Caily 14:31

Okay. So for Ravenclaw, the external trait is intelligence. The core value is knowledge. The flaw is a callousness, sort of, an aloofness or disconnect from the outside world. And then so lots of strengths for Raven claw, obviously very intelligent, but also they have this quest for knowledge, there's a deep seated curiosity. There's a desire for exploration inquiry learning. There's this creative out of the box thinking, and there's a sense of independence and strong sense of self with Ravenclaw. You're allowed to be an individual. You don't have to follow the crowd. Um, so many great things, a lot of inventors and innovators are Raven claw. They analyse everything. Weaknesses are just, like I said, sometimes they can be a little bit aloof because they have a tunnel vision with whatever their passion is. Um, they can live a little bit in their own heads and sometimes be daydreamers. AAnd sometimes there can be a little bit of a judgmental aspect about their own intelligence. Does everyone have the same level of intelligence that I do? So, yeah, anything you'd add to that?

Izzy 15:55

I think had something that I did pick upon, when I was kind of researching a bit more about Ravenclaw, I thought was really interesting is, there were a few Ravenclaws that aren't necessarily the most intelligent and people already surprised they're in the house. So a couple of examples would be, Gildoroy Lockhart, um, who comes across as a bit of a buffoon and also, Cho Chang, even though she is, she's kind of an average student, she doesn't stand out like, that much like Luna is being really intelligent. But what they did, what this kind of article said about it is, Ravenclaws have this ability, to be quite popular and also seek out fame and it comes quite easy to them. And I think, again, it is that, they have this independence and this individuality that makes them stand out a little bit and makes them intriguing and entices other people into that world. So I thought that was a really interesting one about reading clause that, um, they can often be these, um, kind of popular, um, exciting characters that people want to know more about. And people are really drawn in by.

Caily 17:00

I love that you brought up Gilderoy Lockhart as an unconventional Raven claw. I think that's so, it's so interesting. I'm glad you brought that up.

Izzy 17:09

And then one more thing that I'd say about Ravenclaws, which also, um, guilty really draws into and also all of under who's in a Ravenclaw is their ability for, um, memory. So guilt is known for being really good at, um, the memory charm. And that comes up a lot in chamber of secrets. Um, but also Ollivander, has, he remembers every, every one that he's ever sold to which wizard. So, yeah, the ability to remember things as a really strong or even Claude trait, I'd say as well. So I just wanted to add that one in.

Caily 17:42

Oh my gosh. The memory charm, the fact that he was so good at those that makes so much sense why he would be a Ravenclaw. I'm so glad you brought that up.

Izzy 17:50

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I feel that the interest in like some of the, um, kind of more in depth in in-depth insights of every, even Ravenclaw that, this kind of researchers kind of pulled out a bit more, which is, which is really interesting. Cause I think we have a lot of houses that can definitely be that surface level of what you know about them. Um, but I think when she started kind of analysing some of the characters who fall into the houses, you can see a lot more like small traits that you're like, well, that's really interesting.

Caily 18:18

That's so true. I think there are these base characteristics that we need to know, but you really have to look at it, the characters in the book to see the nuances of why they're placed in each house.

Izzy 18:28

Yeah, absolutely. So the next house to introduce is Hufflepuff. So, um, the sorting hat says, uh, you might belong to half a plus where they're just loyal, those patients' Hufflepuffs are true and, and afraid of toil. So, yeah, I'll pass back over to Caily.

Caily 18:47

Okay. So the external tray for Hufflepuff is they're hardworking. The core value is fairness. The flaw is an indecisive newness and then the element is earth. So Hufflepuffs are known for being very loyal patient accepting of others. At one point I think it's in the order of the Phoenix during the sorting hat ceremony, Helga Hufflepuff says, I'll take the rest. And sometimes people view that as a negative thing, but it actually shows the trait of the Hufflepuff being accepting of all people. I think, I read something really interesting about Hufflepuffs. They would be the ones who would advocate for a meritocracy. You work for what you get Hufflepuffs are guided by re reason and live in an objective reality. They have a strong moral compass and they have high levels of emotional regulation. So for example, a Gryffindor and Hufflepuff, they both, um, have a strong sense of morality, but Hufflepuffs are less inclined to have bursts of temper. They're more, calm patient, emotionally regulated. And another thing I read that I thought was interesting is because they value fairness, they can't let passion overtake them. And so they, they really, another thing that I read that I thought was interesting is that they could be best suited for positions of power or authority, because if they ha they have this adherence to fairness and equality, but they often don't take those leadership roles because of an indecisive illness. So that's where kind of the weakness comes in Hufflepuff sometimes can be a little bit naive, easily influenced. They sometimes Hufflepuffs are described as pushovers and yeah, just have difficulty making decisions because they're so accepting and because they are so good at weighing different opinions.

Izzy 20:48

Okay. That's such a good summary. Yeah. I can definitely see for a lot of Hufflepuffs that it's like very, in comparison to Ravenclaw, it's very difficult for them to, know that own mind. I think you see that a lot with, characters like Cedric the fact that he kind of goes along with the fact that people are teasing Harry, even though he sees how as a friend still, and doesn't actually feel that way himself, he still goes along with it. And, um, I think you also see a lot in fantastic beasts with, with new, he kind of gets drawn into things that he wouldn't necessarily have done himself, but he's really like, he just kind of goes with the flow because other people kind of help us more stronger personalities. And, yeah, I think that's definitely a hope of trait for a lot of the characters that they're, but they kind of go with the flow and they kind of overpower by some of the more extroverted houses.

Caily 21:43

I completely agree. I think that those were both really good examples of Cedric and new.

Izzy 21:52

Absolutely. So we have one more house left and that house is Slytherin. So, um, the sorting hat says about Slytherin, or perhaps in slithering you'll make real friends, those cutting folk use any means to achieve that ends. So Caily-

Caily 22:08

External trait of a Slytherin is ambition. The core value is success. The flaw is maliciousness and the element is water. So first of all, I think that Slytherin is get a, really have a really bad reputation generally. And I don't think it's really fair. I am thinking of two of my best friends who have Slytherin traits. And so I just, I hope that people aren't necessarily viewing Slytherin as bad because there are so many good things about Slytherin stuff. Just wanted to put that out there because I feel like Gryffindor tends to be the favourite house. And so tends to just, yeah, people are hard on Slytherin. So some of the positive qualities of slogans, they're very the, the sense of cunning, rather than expanding their knowledge, they find ways to use their existing skills to their advantage. So if you're in a tough situation, a slither ins level of resourcefulness and cunning can be such a help. They can make the best of any situation and they turn bad situations to their advantage. They have a huge amount of determination. They have a goal and they will do anything to achieve it. Some of the weaknesses are Southerns can have Machiavellian tendencies of the end justifies the means. So they're so focused on their goals that sometimes they can do morally ambiguous things to achieve them. They can have, they often can be out for themselves, so they can be a little bit power hungry. And then there, because they're focused on success that can be conflated with viewing status as success. So sometimes there can be some discrimination. So when you think about how many slogans are focused on the ideal wizard is a pure blood wizard, uh, slogans can sometimes be overly focused on status and view themselves as better than others.

Izzy 24:14

Yeah, no, that's such a good point. I love that. I think another good strength of Slytherin is, um, that they can fall quite naturally into leadership roles. And, um, I think that's part of their ambition, but also, um, they're so resourceful and, uh, yeah, I just think that they're able to kind of, um, I do want to use the word control because I think that's too, that that's not the right term, but I think they're able to kind of cut to a wider audience. I mean, a really good example of this, although not morally right, is Voldemort. Like he's able to, um, get this massive following of people that he can kind of, um, bring on bold with his ideas. Like if you think about it, all of those characters, they're not all necessarily, um, you know, skewed on the moral compass, but the, what he sells is that vision. And I think that's a really strong trait of surfers that able to sell a vision and that able to gain followers, um, who agree with what they're saying?

Caily 25:23

I completely agree with you. I think certain slither ins are great with leadership because they have, I can't remember if I said this before, but being shrewd is a huge strength of a Slytherin they're, they're highly intelligent, but it's in a way that's different from a Ravenclaw. Sometimes Ravenclaw, you know, Ravenclaw laws are highly intelligent, but sometimes they can be a little bit separated from reality. They're a little bit more in their head where a slither can really have this down to earth shrewd intelligence that can help them in leadership roles and can help them build respect and build a following.

Izzy 26:02

Absolutely. A second intelligence that can actually be implemented as opposed to an intelligence that's kind of, um, will forever be in your head. If that makes sense. It's not something that can be brought into like reality. Whereas sliver is intelligence definitely is a little bit more practical, I'd say.

Caily 26:18

Yes. That's exactly. That was a great summary of what I was trying to say.

Izzy 26:23

Yeah, that's great. So that is, um, all of the houses kind of right up there, which is great. I think that's a really good place to start is we just kind of set the stage for the characteristics. Um, especially if you just needed a bit of a recap,.

Caily 26:35

This is my dream come true. I just want to say.

Izzy 26:39

So we're going to start with Elizabeth Bennett, for this one, um, couple of things that I'd say for Elizabeth, all intelligence, um, she's very lively, um, wit she's playful. Um, she definitely has her own mind and she can often be quite stubborn. I think she even admits to this herself, there is one quote that she says there is a stubbornness about me, but never combat to be frightened of the will of others. My courage always rises it every attempt to intimidate me. And I think, I, I mean, I love how, um, self-aware Elizabeth is that she, she knows that this is like one of her flows. Like she is really stubborn. Um, and it's very difficult for her to let go of her preconceptions about things. Um, unless she's really like hair on the face with it, like Darcy's laughter um, I think, I think she holds onto it and she fights for it. She's like, no, this is, this is correct. Um, I think that's why it's so embarrassing for her when she's kind of when she's proven wrong. Um, so yeah. Um, do you want to add anything on Elizabeth?

Caily 27:44

I think you did a great job describing her. I actually picked that quote out too. I think it's so important and defining who she is. I would add, I love what her father says about her at the beginning of the novel. He says, Lindsay has a little more width than the rest, but then again, he may prefer a stupid way. So I think, um, she has this ability to size things up and size people up. You know, she knows right away that Bingley’s sister are not snobby and not very nice. She can anticipate things and she's very intelligent and witty. I agree with you. I also think one of her biggest strengths is her courage. You think about her, her financial standing and her social status, and the fact that she's able to stand up to refuse Mr. Collins, even though there's all this pressure to marry him because the estate is entailed away to him, the fact that she has the courage to refuse Darcy when he is the pro, you know, he is so coveted because of his social and financial status. And I think about her courage when she stands up to lady Catherine to Berg. I really agree with what you say about how she just has such a strong sense of self and an independence. And I think she's, she's very, she's very stubborn too. I think she, when you think about she's determined, she has kind of black or white thinking, which is another Gryffindor trait. She sees Wickham Wickham has to be good in her eyes and Darcy has to be bad because he wounded her pride. She's very prideful. Um, and then I would, one other thing I would add is she has a really high sense of honour. So the fact that she thought that Darcy dishonoured Whickham that, that made him a villain in her eyes, but then when she read his letter and she saw that Darcy's honour was redeemed, that was so important to her. And I just think her sense of honour too. You really see that when Lydia runs away with Wickham, Lydia is not affected by that at all, but sh but Lizzie is she, she's always thinking about what is the honourable thing to do in a situation. So yeah, I definitely definitely have two houses. I really think she's quite a hybrid, but at that, yeah. So I'm curious which two houses you think she's in?

Izzy 30:23

Yeah. I've got a feeling. Am I going to pick the same houses? So for Elizabeth I've picked Ravenclaw and Gryffindor. We even cool. Yeah. I thought you may have, I could just tell from how you're describing how so you may have picked the same ones. My Raven cool, um, traits for Elizabeth is definitely her wet. Um, she's very, um, intelligence and, um, obviously she, she loves reading, which is quite a strong, um, Raven claw trait and yeah, so I think she definitely has the Raven claw qualities, but I think you're right that she definitely, I think the deepest side of Elizabeth really shows it shows her Gryffindor traits. It is that bravery that honour that courage, like you were saying, the fact that she's able to reject Collins and Darcy, I think also have playful side, um, maybe falls into both houses, but I think the fact that she's really able to have our own mind in stick to her guns with what she believes in is very much a Raven claws face. Um, so I really liked that about it. And also what I, what I think is, um, she, she's very similar to a father in a lot of ways. I think her father was a very through and through Ravenclaw. So I think, yeah, I think that that's where her even close eye comes from. Um, and I, I mean, I dad to say it, but maybe her Griffin dill side comes from Mrs. Bennett. I know Mrs. Bennett kind of loses a marbles a bit, but I can really see that that's where it comes from.

Caily 31:56

Interesting. Oh boy. Okay. I see it. I think Mrs. Bennett is such a slither in, but I do see, I do see the boldness and the daring that you would see in Mrs. Bennet.

Izzy 32:10

And the recklessness.

Caily 32:12

Recklessness. There we go. Yeah. Yes. Um, I agree. I completely agree with you. I was going to bring up the fact that, you know, Lizzie has such a close relationship with her father. She has a very Raven claw relationship with her father. And I agree that he's a through and through Raven claw, just sitting in his own world in his library, but very intelligent. Um, yeah, I mean, you summed it up really well. I think what I would is Lizzie also just has a really strong sense of justice. The fact that Wickham has faced injustice in her eyes makes Darcy a billon. And then when she finds out that Wickham has actually been unjust in his portrayal of Darcy, that really has a profound effect on her. And I would say another Gryffindor, uh, quality to Lizzie is she, she fiercely defends the people she loves, think about how much she protects Jane and how upset she is with Darcy, for sliding her sister and making her sister unhappy by taking Bingley away from her. So I think Lizzie, it just has a strong sense of, of justice loyalty. I think, I think at the end I lean more toward one house over the other.

Izzy 33:35

Oh, I totally agree with everything you just said. It's, it's so much stronger than like a Hufflepuff, um, sense of right and wrong and justice. The it's like, actually we need to do something about this. I think there's actually a moment where she doesn't understand why Wickham's not called Darcy out for it. I think she even says that she's like, oh, you'll you don't much calmer about this than I would be. I would have, like, she would have liked, totally freaked out about it. And I think that really shows like it's not enough for her to know right and wrong. She has to, she has to have justice in the world. It has to be like universally shown as opposed to it can't be a private justice.

Caily 34:14

Yes. She has to act on it. And if you think about it, she is even though she's playful and lively and sweet, she's a hot head. Think about the way that she jumps in and rejects Mr. Darcy. She, yeah, she she's a person of action and she will speak her truth. So at the end of the day, I put her as Gryffindor and her secondary house raving clock. And with the acknowledgement that I really think she does have a lot of raving claw. I think it's leaning close to half and half, but more Gryffindor.

Izzy 34:49

You know, that's so funny when I, when I say it like the research myself and I was sitting down thinking about, I actually put Ravenclaw first, but now we've talked through, I agree that I think Gryffindor have primary house and Ravenclaw secondary one.

Caily 35:05

It's a tough decision though. I really, I can see the argument for either side, but yeah,.

Izzy 35:12

I think when it comes to core characteristics, I think she's a Gryffindor.

Caily 35:18

Yeah, me too. I think that courage piece is just so ingrained in her.

Izzy 35:24

Absolutely. I'm excited to see everybody else. I living with my, my ideas and thoughts can change like a mid recording, I love that. I'm just like I've got a new ideas now.

Caily 35:39

I am so excited too, because I, I spent more time than I'd like to admit thinking about this. And it's a lot harder than you think it will be. I I'm sure you're going to change my mind on other characters. I kept going back and forth.

Izzy 35:53

Yes. I know. I feel like very much like the houses when you look out to SF, is that what you think? It will be easy. I can like place people, but you right when you start actually thinking about it and actually pairing like characteristics up, it's so much harder, um, to please people, I am actually glad I'm not the sorting hat. Cause it would be a pain in the bum. Like it's so difficult to do this on individuals all the time.

Caily 36:25

Before we move on to the next heroine, can I, can I just quickly say, I don't know if you agree. I just think Jane Bennett, it, most people have a primary house and a secondary house, but don't you just think Jane is a tried and true Hufflepuff.

Izzy 36:42

Yeah, absolutely.

Caily 36:44

Just like wanting happiness for her whole family, caring for others a little bit naive sometimes. Um, but just so trustworthy, loving anti-conflict patient hardworking. I just think if we think Hufflepuff Jane.

Izzy 37:01

I couldn't agree more. Absolutely. I, she is through and through a Hufflepuff, so. I love that. That's amazing. Okay. So the next heroine on the list is Marianne Dashwood. Um, a couple of things that I've wrote down about Marianne, like characteristics. She is a romantic idealist. I'd say she is very opinionated, um, spontaneous a bit reckless, maybe more than a bit. Um, she is slightly naive. Um, and she is, I think very strong-willed and in the same way as, as Elizabeth, I think, um, she's, she is a bit of a protector, especially of her family of Eleanor or of what's right and wrong. She's got such, such strong views on that. Um, I think even it goes a little bit too, too far at times. I think her ideas about, um, marriage, second marriage, um, Marine people who were older, I think you definitely see her ideas of right and wrong are slightly skewed. Um, which I'll come on to a bit more because I think that links into her houses a bit. Um, your thoughts.

Caily 38:13

I think that was a beautiful description of her. I agree with you. She, she, she also has this strong sense of justice in ways that are not necessarily socially wise. Um, for example, I think about when Mrs. John Dashwood came to their house right after their father died, Marianne sees how inappropriate that is and insensitive the way Mrs. John Dashwood is acting. And remember, she has that scene where she's like is the silver to your liking. And she's just, she really has this strong sense of what is morally right. And what is morally wrong. She defends the honour of her family too. Like she, I remember when Mrs. Ferrer's is looking at Eleanor's art, she keeps sliding Eleanor and saying, well, it's nothing to miss Morton's. And Marianne starts crying and says, who is Ms. Morton to us? We're talking about Eleanor, she's such a, she does anything she can to defend the honour of the people that she loves, even though she realises that she doesn't realise that it actually makes Eleanor more embarrassed. Marianne has, has such a fierce loyalty to the people that she loves. So I agree with you. She is strong sense of justice, strong sense of what she thinks is right and wrong. Um, she has a lot of black and white thinking. She was determined to see, will it be as good and, and Colonel Brandon as old and unsuited for her, she has a, uh, uh, a lot of impulsivity. She, she goes out on that walk the day that she sprains her ankles, she's out in the elements and she insists on continuing to walk. So she has this impetuous quality to her. She kind of low self-regulation. Um, she also exactly, like you said, you, did you call her the romantic idealist? Is that what you said?

Izzy 40:20


Caily 40:21

That's such a great way of summing it up. She's very creative and she has these intellectual ideas. She has particular poets and authors that she loves. She loves her music. She, she lives in her head a little bit in that way. So that's how I would overall summarise her.

Izzy 40:41

Okay. Interesting. I think we're going to differ on our houses here.

Caily 40:45


Izzy 40:47

So, the two houses I've gone for, Gryffindor and Slytherin. So yeah, I feel you might defer that. Um, so the Griffin till, um, it's very much about that sense of honour that we were discussing about her family. Um, I think she's got a lot of courage and bravery. Um, she's able to pick herself back up after the Willoughby thing. It just takes a little bit of time, but she is able to bring us out back around. I think she, between her and Eleanor, I think she's really good about that main protagonists feel about her. And I think that also speaks to more of a Gryffindor trait of being that protagonist, not the supporting role, but the main role. And, uh, um, I think also some of the negative sides of a Gryffindor, so it should have been a bit stubborn, um, hot headed. She definitely has like, she's totally reckless. Um, but I do think she has a lot of sliver and traits. Um, yeah, I do. I do. There's um, I think her, I do want to call it snobbery because it's not, I do think that she, I think she feels herself to be superior in, um, like the way that she lives her life and to morals. Um, I think she thinks, like, I think that's why she looks down a little bit on Colonel Brandon's to start with, so I think it's maybe a bit of ages and et cetera, but I think she has a superiority about youth, her and Willoughby together. I think, I think he brings out more Tesla for and traits to be honest with you, but I think there's an arrogance about them. And I think that's quite a, um, kind of the more negative side to a Slytherin, which I think is drawn out quite a lot. Um, I think that she quite ambitious in the sense that when she's kind of locked onto Willoughby, she falls for him. She is going to go for him no matter what, like that's totally her drive. And I feel like she gets so locked on it that she's willing that she ends up doing things like embarrassing Eleanor or embarrassing the family, um, because she's become, so narrow-minded about it. Like she wants will it be, and that's her main objective and goal. And I think that's very much a sliver and trait that they can get locked onto something and really fight for it. Even if it means kind of maybe obsessing a couple of people along the way:

Caily 42:59

I see why you say that. I think Marianne is extremely self-involved, you know, luckily she's one of the characters, I think of all the heroines that has the most character growth throughout the novel, but she is very self-focused and I think that that can be a slithering trait sometimes. So I, I think you have a good argument there. And what you said about she's focused on her goal, her goal, her is to be with Willoughby and her ambition for love. She, she has this idea of this perfect love that she wants and she'll do anything to get it. So I think I, I see why you are thinking that I didn't think that myself, but I think you have a good argument. I think I thought so. I think she's a combination of Gryffindor and Ravenclaw. And I find that so interesting that I think it's the same differing levels, but I think it's the same hybrid as Lizzie, because they're such different characters. But the reason I was thinking Raven claw is Raven Claus sometimes have this tunnel vision on there on whatever they're passionate about. And I think Marianne is so creative. She loves her music. She really values literature, poetry. She is an intellectual. And so I think, and she's a bit of a daydreamer. She lives in her own world. Um, and so, and I think that she values those things. That's why I would put her in Raven claw. Um, but I think primarily, I think she's a tried and true Gryffindor with the sense of justice with she's really at the beginning of the novel and immature Gryffindor she has a lot of the, the impulsiveness, the impetuous impetuousness that black and white.

Izzy 44:57

Very much, very much a Ron.

Caily 45:00

Ron. Yes. Yes.

Izzy 45:06

No, I love that. I thought you were going to say you're even glory just knew. I was like, she's going to say Ravenclaw and I a hundred percent get why you pick Ravenclaw. And I did play around with that originally. I was like maybe a Raven claw, but I think some of my more recent regions of sense and sensibility, I started to get the feeling that Maryanne's into intellectual love and feelings is very surface level. I do want to is exactly, but it's not it's as if every time there's something kind of intellectual, like reading poetry or the music, it has to be very public for her. It doesn't seem like it's like something that she spends her time thinking about in private that she's, you know, really interested in in that sense. Um, you know, how, um, Edward Ferris, um, reads a poem and she has to like critique him. She's like, oh, he didn't read it as well as I'd want him to. And obviously when she's playing the piano, it's quite often for an audience. And so I think that she uses it more to build up who she wants to be more than who she actually is.

Caily 46:09

Interesting. Yeah. I see it. I really see it in a way I didn't before I think particularly what you use, what you're saying about the level of superiority and, and self self involvement and yeah. The, the ambition ambitious side to her. I, yeah, I see it. I think that's a really good argument too, about the qualities that are traditionally Ravenclaw. Why are they so public? Why are they, so, yeah, it's almost like she's putting it on a show about them as opposed to really having them in turn.

Izzy 46:51

I think, um, because if you compare it to Elizabeth, I think Elisabeth's intellectual mind is very through and through. Like, because she's such an avid reader, she doesn't read for the benefit of other people and she doesn't care what other people think about her reading. Um, she is honest that she's not that great on the piano. Um, whereas I feel like Marianne feels the need to be perfect at anything that's intellectual, to the extent that it comes across as an authentic.

Caily 47:19

Um, yeah, I definitely see it. I, I think the only thing that's holding me back is I feel like slither ones tend to be more calculated and Marianne is so she, she's not calculated at all. She will say whatever's on her mind, even if it's not going to be in her favor socially.

Izzy 47:42

Yeah, I totally agree. I think that's, I mean, to be honest, to be one of the things I've said and done, I agree that I think she's a Gryffindor I think Lutheran, if it is to be any part of her, it would be a secondary like house for her. I agree. I think for three, she has a Griffin Dole, so I think we can agree that.

Caily 48:01

So we both think she's tried and true Gryffindor, but then she has for the secondary house, you think Slytherin.

Izzy 48:13

I do. I do.

Caily 48:14

And I think grave Ravenclaw, but I, I can be convinced. I think, I think you brought up some really good points that I hadn't thought of.

Izzy 48:22

And I totally thought Ravenclaw was on my list for originally. It was only when I just kind of started looking at stuff, but more detail. And I think bringing my own kind of readings into it, like my own bias, like now I've started to think about it a different way. I was like, maybe I'll split the marina and that. So I feel, I was like, oh, maybe I'll just mix things off, be a bit different that first liberated.

Caily 48:43

Well, I love it because I can see the ways that, that Lizzie and Maryann are similar. They both have a lot of strength and courage and they're hot headed. And, but they're also so different. So it was like, how could they both be Griff Eleanor and then secondary Raven claw. So that would make sense to me that there would be, they wouldn't have the same primary and secondary house.

Izzy 49:08

Interesting. Good, good. I love this. This is amazing. Okay. So I'm sticking with census sensibility. The next heroine we're going to talk about is Eleanor Dashwood. Um, so some of the characteristics I have for Eleanor are, fullness, she's quite composed sensitive and propriety logic, um, Has sentences a hundred percent it's juxtaposed against the sensibility of Marianne. Obviously that's why the book was named as such. Um, Yeah. Eleanore was really hard for me to place. I don't even have two houses for, I only have lawn. I, and I'm still not a hundred percent. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on Eleanor.

Caily 49:55

I'm so glad he said that because I sat the longest with Eleanor and I feel the least clear with my that's funny, you picked one house because I, there was one that I eliminated right away, but I had difficulty. I still feel like she has qualities of three houses is really hard for me to narrow it down for Eleanor. So that's so interesting that we both struggled the most with her.

Izzy 50:21

Uh, should I tell you the one that I've got that I've got down. Like I said, I'm not a hundred percent I put Hufflepuff. And I is that if you got, have a little of down as well, and I don't know whether it was like, I couldn't place it. And so the only place I could place it was Hufflepuff. If that makes sense.

Caily 50:41

No, I think that does make sense. She has such a combination of unique qualities. I also put Hufflepuff, I think when it came down to it, I think because Hufflepuffs are, are known for being patient and for their forbearance. And when I think of Eleanor, I think that she's, she has a ton of forbearance. She has a very strong moral compass, which is associated with both Gryffindor and Hufflepuff. But I think Gryffindor are so impetuous and Eleanor has so much self-regulation. So like when I think Gryffindor versus Hufflepuff, I think Griffin doors, higher levels of bravery that they enact, but low emotional regulation, whereas Hufflepuffs are more level-headed and higher emotional regulation. And I think that's such a huge part of Eleanor that think she has a lot of Hufflepuff. She's extremely hardworking, but that's not, I don't think it fully embodies her just because when I think about the weaknesses of Hufflepuff or that they can be pushovers and naive. And while Eleanor basically has to take care of her mother, Marianne, Margaret, she really is the caretaker in that family. So you could argue she's a pushover, she's not naive. She doesn't, she has a strong backbone and she has extremely strong can conviction conviction. And she knows who she is. And she's very practical wise. She's the one who takes care of the finances. She's the one who's pushing back. When will it be tries to get Marianne the horse? And she knows it's not practical. So I have her as a Hufflepuff Ravenclaw hybrid. What do you think about that?

Izzy 52:28

So I think some of the things that you just describing that, I mean, I feel you were going to say I'm a Hufflepuff Gryffindor actually.

Caily 52:35

Yeah, I know. I know. And that's, that's why I kept Griffin in there. That's why I was like, oh, but she's, she's three, because she does have a tremendous amount of courage. The issue has such a high level of honour, which is associated with Gryffendor, right? Like she loves Edward, but she really values that he stood by Lucy because it's the honorable thing to do. And she's willing to compromise her happiness to have him keep his honor. So there are Gryffendor treats there too, but I can't put her in Gryffindor because Griffin doors are so impulsive and she's so regulated and controlled.

Izzy 53:17

Oh gosh, that's so true. She's just such a hard one to place in. Part of me was like, do you think it's because we don't get to see enough of her character. Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like a lot of what we see about Eleanor in reflection of other people. So it's like, we see the way that she behaves towards Marianne's recklessness. So it's like more of a response as opposed to her views. If that, I don't know if that makes any sense. Like, sometimes I feel like what she does is a response because of those around her, the reason she has to deal with the finances, because she knows someone's terrible asset. Um, the reason she takes that kind of, um, caring role is because that situation changes so much and she kind of steps into things I'm like, is that actually her? Would that actually be true? His character? Because I think it's really interesting when she lets her guard down how different she is. Do you know when Edward comes back and she eventually just like breaks down? I just think it's as if she bottles her truest self up so much. And I think maybe it's so hard to place a, because we don't get to spend enough time with her alone.

Caily 54:23

I totally see what you're saying in that she makes her life about other people. Like her life is about reacting to her mother, reacting to Maryanne, managing everyone, making sure everyone else is happy, but you do have, you do get that sense while you're reading it of her internal anguish. You're right. She's never prioritising what she wants for herself. Um, and I have, I thought it would be helpful to read the description of her at the beginning of the novel. So it says about Eleanor, she had an excellent heart. Her disposition was affectionate and her feelings were strong, but she knew how to govern them. It was a knowledge which her mother had yet to learn and which one of her sisters had resolved never to be taught. So yeah, there could be that argument. Is she a repressed Gryffindor? Cause it, it does say her feelings are strong and throughout the novel, there are moments where she it's, you, you, you feel how much she's struggling. So I don't know. I think some of the adaptations don't do her justice, particularly the 1980 adaptation presents Eleanor as this very robotic person who has no feelings. But when you're reading the novel, you're like, oh my gosh, she has really strong feelings. She just has to keep them bottled up.

Izzy 55:44

Yeah, I actually think that's one of her main characteristics is how deep and sensitive she is. I think it's easy to get sidetracked with Marianne's emotions because she's so outward about them. But I actually think Eleanor is more sensitive, um, more deep than Marianne. Um, she's just quieter about it. I think, I think her main house is Hufflepuff.

Caily 56:07

Me too. Me too. And I, it makes me feel good too to, I think that Maryann and Eleanor should be in different houses, right?

Izzy 56:17


Caily 56:17

Like if we were to put them both in Gryffindor, that wouldn't feel right. Because in some ways they're such a foil to one another. Uh, but yeah, I think it's okay. So we agree. She's Hufflepuff. I think it's just up for debate what that secondary house is. And I had, I have wanted to say a Raven club, but there's this streak of Gryffindor that I can't get out of my mind. And yeah. What do you think.

Izzy 56:43

Ah, I'm, I'm drawn to Gryffindor for her, to be honest with you, there's some fan, this makes some really awful this something, not very individual about Serena to be a Raven Chlor. I don't think.

Caily 56:56

Oh yeah. That's so interesting. Okay. That's a really good thing to think about because she's strong and individual when it comes to her convictions, right? Like she, when Lucy steals trying to manipulate her, when someone's trying to tell her something that's off the change, she's like, I'm not engaging. I'm not indulging with this. So she has this, but it's this sense of morality. And I'm like, is that really, is that really you being an individual or is that you adhering to these rigid moral convictions that are, that were taught to you? And I think that's such a good point that she, instead of just being herself, she's managing everyone else. Yeah. And I know that Raven claw is they're really known for being their own person and oh, I think you convinced me. I think you're right. I think the secondary is a Gryffindor. Yep.

Izzy 57:33

And if, cause if you think about like Elizabeth and Maryanne, they very much have their own personalities that really stand out. And I think that's, they're even Claude traits that, that you could pick them out of a lineup. There isn't other people that you can kind of say that just like them. Whereas I feel like Eleanor can be, is very similar to other people and other characters. Like I feel like she has a lot of similarities to arm in. I think there's less individuality to.

Caily 58:19

You've convinced me. And I think it, Eleanor is one of the characters who has the most anguish in the novels. And it would make sense if you are a combination of Gryffindor and Hufflepuff, there are certain things like the moral compass and in the justice that are similar, but then there are other things that are in complete conflict. So that must be so difficult to have so much like emotional regulation, but then to have such strong feelings to want to take action too, and have that in combination with in decisiveness. Okay. You've totally convinced me. I'm on board with you.

Izzy 58:53

You know what? I really love something that you said you were like, I think she's a repressed Gryffindor. I think that's actually like a perfect way to describe it.

Caily 59:02

Yeah. I love talking this through. You're right. It's so amazing when someone can change your mind in the middle of this.

Izzy 59:13

Okay. Yeah. So I mean, this Episode has been like such a game changes so far. Um, is there anything that you want to add about sense Caily before we wrap things up?

Caily 59:25

I was just thinking that, I find it interesting that we put Lizzie and Marianne both in Griffin door and I see Lizzie as a more mature evolved Gryffindor who had more opportunity, um, versus Marianne I think is an immature Gryffindor who, who does a lot of evolving over the course of the novel, but I find her to be in more of a precarious position. And it's just interesting to me that while there are some similarities, Lizzie and Marianne are fundamentally so different in some ways, yet they are in the same primary house. So that was just one thing I thought of.

Izzy 1:00:07

That's such a great observation, you know, it's very much like how different, like her meiny Ron and Harry are, when you look at some of their characteristics, everybody has like a strong Gryffindor tray, but then this, I mean, this, this is exactly why we've ended up with a primary and secondary house, I think because no one person is like one time mentioned in the sense that they'll fit perfectly into one house. Um, there's always going to be elements of your personality, that kind of sway into another one. And I think that's so true. Like it's, you're always going to have different personalities, even though they publish are a core characteristic that then puts them into the Hogwarts house.

Caily 1:00:47

Yes. I feel like, yeah, just like you said, the secondary house picks up on the nuances of each character and I think there are varying levels, right? Like I think we decided that for Lizzie, it was a close call. She's almost half and half Gryffindor and Raven claw. Like her secondary house is very close to being on the same level as her primary house. Whereas other characters they're mostly their primary house and then like a little sliver of the secondary house.

Izzy 1:01:17


Caily 1:01:19

We said that, Jane Bennett, we basically summed her up in five seconds. He said she's just Hufflepuff pretty much there isn't much of a secondary house there.

Izzy 1:01:28

Right. And do you know, I think that's maybe because we don't actually isn't, it's not Jane's story that we're following. Obviously we do see a lot of her story, but we see it more through Lindsay's eyes. And I think in that sense, we don't have enough to go off to place her secondary house.

Caily 1:01:44

Exactly. She, she does have one, but because she's not the protagonist and she's not the main focus, I think we don't get that extra level of her character.

Izzy 1:01:58

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Well that is great. And thanks so much, Caily. It’s honestly so much fun. I can't wait to go into part two, which again, guys is going to come out next month. So we'll be continuing on, we'll be sorting the other heroines into their houses. And like I said, at the start, it's going to be Northanger Abbey month's field park, persuasion and Emma. So there's a lot of really great content still to come. So that'll be coming out the third Saturday of may. So yeah. Make sure that you tune in for that. yeah. Caily, where can everybody find you?

Caily 1:02:35

My Instagram handle is half_agony_half_hope. Obviously after the persuasion, love letter. Um, and yeah, you can find me there.

Izzy 1:02:49

Yeah, absolutely. We'd love to hear from you guys, like what you think of the episode, if you think that if you agree with, you know, some of the houses and, um, yeah. If you're excited about parts here, so we will see you in may and we'll see you in the next episode. Bye guys.

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