Ep 11: Who wants to be a millionaire? Discussing who is the wealthiest Jane Austen hero

Welcome to the eleventh episode of the What the Austen? podcast! I'm your host Izzy, and I am joined by my friend and fellow Janeite Charlie from @thebookboy. In this episode, we will discuss how wealth is portrayed with in Austen's novels. We will specifically be focusing on some of the heroes, who is the wealthiest, how is their income talked about by other characters if at all, how was it generated and what does this mean for them in terms of marriage etc. From Bingley's celebrated 5 thousand a year to Edwards Ferrars' complicated finical situation, this is a fun episode playing banker and sizing everyone up.

Listen to Episode 11 here: https://whattheaustenpodcast.buzzsprout.com/

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Episode Transcript

Izzy 0:18

Hi, Janites and welcome to episode 11 of the, What the Austen podcast. I'm really excited to

say that today I'm joined by Charlie from @thebookboy bookstagram. So hi Charlie. I'm so

pleased you wanted to do this episode with me.

Charlie 0:31

I'm really glad to do it. I'm looking forward to it.

Izzy 0:34

Amazing. So it'd be really great to hear before we start. What made you start your

bookstagram originally and also what got you into Jane Austen?

Charlie 0:42

Well, I started my bookstagram because I had a personal account on Instagram and I just

occasionally started taking photos of the books just because I liked it, and then I kind of

thought, well, what if I just had a whole account about books and kind of went from there. And

I also had a friend who was a bookstagrammer, who was like, why don't you just do it? So I

did. That's that really.

Izzy 1:03

Absolutely in your aesthetic is honestly, gold dust. If anyone doesn't follow Charlie, you need

to, his aesthetic is amazing.

Charlie 1:11

This is kind of, I don't even really know all my aesthetic is. It's just kind of me messing about

really make it work. But with Jane Austen, I think what really got me into her books was I

discussed Andre way, but I went to summer camp when I was 16. And I took with me all of like

all seven of her novels in one giant paper bag. I think it had Keira Knightley on the front. You

know, it was a kind of movie tie-in one. And I just want, I'm just going to read them all. And so

in the kind of four weeks I was away for summer camp. I wrote every single Jane Austen novel

in a row, all in one chunk and yeah, I just loved them. I just instantly just found them captivating

and fascinating and that whole world and yeah, I just, that whole summer was great.

Izzy 2:02

In camping, you're just in your room, reading Austen.

Charlie 2:05

Avoiding people, living my best Regency life. People outside, like kayaking and stuff.

Izzy 2:13

Do you want to play Frisbee? Not really.

Charlie 2:16

No. Not unless it involves Elizabeth Bennet. Claire, like how much do you earn a year? And

we'll think about it.

Izzy 2:26

So true. And that actually fits in because today's episode is called, who wants to be a

millionaire. It's not at all related to the game show in any way. Actually we're going to be

discussing the wealth and how this is portrayed within Austen’s novels. So who the wealthiest

hero is, how their income is talked about by other characters, how it's generated in the first

place. And what does this mean for them in terms of marriage? So a lot of you know, I really

love covering the theme of money in Austen’s novels. I just find it fascinating, but yeah, a lot of

Austen's work revolves around her heroines that quest love, but also the trials and tribulations

of needing economic security, apart from Emma as me and Charlie were discussing, you know,

like pre-meeting. Yeah. I mean, she lives a great life. Doesn't she? She is in a huge contrast to

everyone else. Really isn't she, if you look at all the main characters, we're looking at people

who are from fairly low income scenarios and most of the time either they've already lost their

wealth or they're not going to inherit the wealth from their fathers or whatever, because they're

all women. And then yeah, we've got, Emma has just doesn't care.

Charlie 3:45

I know, totally living her best life. And I think she totally knows it as well, which I also thinks

amazing. Maybe Jane got bored of having like poor characters. She was like, I need an Emma

in my life. She wrote a letter and saying I'm writing a character that I think only I will like, but I

love them. I think she’s great.

Izzy 4:05

Emma is was literally one of my favourite characters, but I know a lot of people like to hate her,

but I'm here, like a true Emma fan, for sure. So money's definitely super important to in Jane's

novels. And, she said herself, female economy will do a great deal, but it cannot turn a small

income into a large one. And that is very true. So that's why today we'll be focusing more on

the heroes cause they're kind of the starting point of money and yeah, we'll go from there. So

I'm interested to know your general thoughts on money and Austen. And did you think there

was like a hero who was the wealthiest, like if you thought about it all before this point?

Charlie 4:43

I mean, I don't, I have thoughts about it. I mean, I think when you read Austen it is so prevailing

in the very characters of the book. I mean, when you think about characters wildly, we are

mostly aware of their economical status. I mean, even if we look at Emma, for example, we

know she's handsome and rich from the first sentence, and then we get later in and we know

that Ms. Bates is poor. You know, whether that is poor in terms of actual poor of what we

would consider poor today or poor from the fact that she's, you know, descended in standing,

she’s still, you know, a woman of various connections, obviously she's friends with Emma and

her family, but you know, she's poor in times that she has no income. She will only continue to

get poorer, because she doesn't have a husband or a profession. So what can we do? So

we’re all kind of given those clues about everyone, I would say for the most part, at least kind

of a general group that they would fit in within the kind of financial hierarchy.

Izzy 5:43

Yeah, that is really interesting about Austen. It's almost an essential part of their character

where they will financially fall. And I think that's quite different to some other books. Like if you

look at it kind of later books, like Brontë and that kind of thing. I don't think there's that much

focus on their finances as much as Austen does. Like, it is very much like a lot of the first lines,

like you were saying, do even comment on wealth.

Charlie 6:06

Yeah, I think it's just a, yeah, it's a foundational part of it. I think because they are society

novels in a way, aren't they, I mean, we're looking at a snapshot of a society and the

movements within it. So by setting the pieces in the financial areas, then we can get the proper

idea of who's moving up and who's moving down basically.

Izzy 6:25

No, a hundred percent. I totally agree with you. And, I will say before we start that this isn't a

black and white topic guys, obviously we've done a bit of research for this episode, but we're

not here as historical economical experts on many in the regional era. This is really just a

discussion based on what we found and what the books tell us, that kind of thing. So I thought

just for context before we start, I want to highlight to everybody listening that there's a

difference between a fortune and an income in Austen’s book. So if we think about this in

monopoly terms, the fortune would be the grand total of your houses, your hotels, your

property cards, the cash you've got stored underneath the mat compared to your income,

which would be the money that you get when someone lands on your properties, when you

pass go or any interest you get from the, the little cards that you pick up from the middle. So

most character's yearly income is actually interest gained from their fortune. That interest is

around 5%. It would seem, in the Regency era. So you would invest your money and you gain

about 5% from that. And that's what you'd live off. Any secondary region that I've done in any

that Charlie wants to add as well. I'll tell you the Athens, the bio section, so that you can do

extra reading on this, but yeah, and also I'd like to say, I might make occasional references to

how this relates to modern day, but because inflation's changed so much and it's totally varied.

Charlie 7:50

It's very hard to do that. So don't look for accuracy, just look at it as an estimate and a broad

range.

Charlie 7:58

Yeah, absolutely. I'm definitely not an expert. So we're just going to have to, I think we, I think,

you know, anything that we say will probably be roundabout, correct. I mean, obviously we

won't be a hundred percent on the figures. No one could be because the inflation, as you say

is so different from how it was. I mean, what was it you sent me some reading before. And I

think it said inflation after 1913 would be spot on because of certain things in place. But

obviously it's novel sort of way before that so that they can't accurately assess.

Izzy 8:33

No 100% we're talking about like a hundred years ago plus. So, it'd be so difficult for us to

kind of estimate that now. And I think in any term of investment of 5% return is pretty good, so

right.

Charlie 8:48

Wish we could get about these days.

Izzy 8:51

But a hundred percent sure how we'd even like equate that to nowadays, but that is like a

rough idea of, we could see what that would mean that it would be added in this day and age.

So yeah, you know, I'm happy to start jumping in on it. I thought we could start with pride and

prejudice. As my listeners though, I always start with pride and prejudice. This isn't favouritism

guys. It’s just, just chronologically, it always works out this way for me, but yeah, I know, I felt

the character would start with is actually Mr. Bingley though, just because he's, one of the first

ones mentioned in terms of wealth when it comes to a hero in pride and prejudice. So even the

starts, the book, we hear that Mrs. Bennett has seen a single man of large fortune 4,000 or

5,000 a year. What's a fine thing for our girls. So we just instantly boom, Mr. Bingley and he's a

money pot.

Charlie 9:45

He’s got money. So let's go to that ball, which is fair play. I mean, I think, you know, in a way

Bingley, he has a great prospect isn't he obviously he has never failed. While letting Netherfield,

you know, he's got the income to do so. So he's a man of property. He's also single and if

you've got, well, how many daughters have we got here? 5, so a lot of sources to marry off and

none of them are, they're all out in society. So get on it basically five isn't it. So.

Izzy 10:21

Yeah. Now is the time I think that definitely you can tell the excitement, cause I think obviously

live in, Longbourn Marrion there's clearly not that many single men dotting about especially of

5,000 a year. So because obviously this house is sat vacant as well. So it's obviously exciting

that someone's coming in with money. Who's now letting that property out. So, Bingley's

yearly income is set to be about 5,000 a year. And going off the 5% theory, that would mean

his kind of total net fortune would be about a hundred thousand pounds. And, yeah, we have

to remember, like Charlie was saying, he's letting Netherfield, so he doesn't actually have a

property of his own. Right. Like Mr. Darcy does. And also the really interesting thing about

Bingley is his money's from trade. So he's not like necessarily he has inherited it from his

father, but this isn't old money, this isn't like a family estate that's being passed down. Yeah. I

mean, what your thoughts on Mr. Bingley and his income?

Charlie 11:23

I mean, it's interesting actually. I mean, as he's from trade, it's quite curious that, I mean,

obviously back then, we're still looking at a time where trade money is still looked down upon

in comparison to, you know, aristocracy and inherited wealth. So it's quite interesting that even

though he is from that background, people are still very excited about him and there's not that

kind of slight edge of oh, but he's made it through that way or, I mean, I guess, because he

didn't make it himself. Did he? So maybe that one generational gap of his father making it has

made it a bit more acceptable? I'm not really sure on the social ideas of that time of like how,

how far down it would be to count as sort of inheritance wealth, but-

Izzy 12:09

That's actually such a good point. I didn't think about that. Like maybe that generation gap is

well kind of smoothed the way for him.

Charlie 12:15

Because he's already a gentlemen rather than someone who has worked to get that money,

but it's still pretty fresh, isn't it? So I think, you know, a lot of real nobility of the time would

have still looked down on this to Bingley, despite being a man of means.

Izzy 12:31

That's so true. And you know, what really, I always want to interest in about this is Caroline

Bingley really looks down on the Gardners and yet that income source is exactly the same

apart from obviously Mr. Garden is probably a little bit more in, on the actual business side of

things still.

Charlie 12:48

It's because it's too close to home. Maybe it's very much, we've escaped. That's atmosphere.

Just about, so now I have to look down on it to make clear that I'm no longer from the area or

any more kind of vibe, which would explain why she's so horrible.

Izzy 13:03

Yeah. Maybe it's like an insecurity about her status still. Like maybe like, I mean, that would

also explain her desperation to marry Darcy. Like that would definitely secure her in, kind of

highest society if she wants to marry Darcy, that it would basically just wash away the links of

her past, to be honest with you.

Charlie 13:21

But I mean, there's that real link. She wants that with proper aristocracy and well kind of at

least inherited wealth and families of good standing, she's desperate for it to happen.

Izzy 13:32

And I think it's interesting cause they say that, Mr. Bingleys father, he was trying to buy an

estate before he died. So you could definitely see even for his father, it was like they needed

those foundations, to really place themselves in society. I think what helps Mr. Bingley the most

is his friendship with Darcy, even though everyone's quite excited that he's coming around, I

can imagine that creates a lot more connections.

Charlie 13:56

An interesting friendship. If you do think that, I mean, I've not ever really thought about this and

now it's all kind of clicking into place, but it is weird, but Darcy is friends with him in a way, and

there's not that level of snobbery against it. And maybe that's a very early hint straight away

that is kind of a better person than his originally perceived as maybe we are prejudiced against

him ourselves straight away.

Izzy 14:19

Yeah. That's such a good point. Like maybe that's just like a hidden link that Mr. Darcy's

actually a really nice guy and doesn't really look down on people. Like I think obviously like his

upbringing means that he has the occasional, kind of snobbery to things that he does.

Especially when he looks a little down on the, on the Bennetts, for their actions and behaviors.

Well, absolutely. I think his connection with the Bengalis and that they're so close and stay at

each other's houses, definitely shows that he's got a more softer side and is more accepting

and probably forward thinking as well. Cause obviously he can tell that it's, it's the Bingley's of

the world that probably now the ones coming up with all the money.

Charlie 14:59

It's progressive, isn't it, especially if that kind of time that's an attitude, which yeah, it wouldn't

really be adopted for a long time afterwards. So who knew.

Izzy 15:09

Right, right. This also got me thinking as well though. Maybe that explains more about why

Darcy was reluctant for Charles to Mary Jane, because maybe he was thinking, oh, you know,

you're kind of on the borders of being accepted in society, marrying Jane's really not going to

do you any favours. And I didn't think about that till I started research in this one. And I thought

maybe that it's more about that. Maybe that's why he's more worried about Bingley marrying

into the Bennett family as opposed to Darcy, because Darcy is very established.

Charlie 15:38

That makes sense actually. Yeah. Completely, because it would be kind of like stepping back

down again, wouldn't it making a connection with someone who would viably be within your

field anyway, you know, Bennett women, aren't rich, they've got a, a bit of a dowery, but they're

not, you know, wealthy. So yeah. It would be very much aligning with someone technically

beneath him, but on the sort of level he's already come from.

Izzy 16:01

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So I thought that was really interesting as well. When you, when you

think about it from that perspective, is there anything else that you want to say about Bingley

and his position?

Charlie 16:11

I don’t think so. I think we've covered it pretty well actually. And you know, definitely got some

interesting points, which even I haven't really thought of, you know, he's got all of their things

just in his status and his financial makeup is actually what makes his character so interesting.

We don't really get much of him from the book. Do we really?

Izzy 16:31

Also I think it's really interesting that we don't really hear much about his business. Like we

often hear Darcy like needing to go and sort business out or writing letters to a steward, that

kind of thing. But I think there's only one real reference to Bingley sorting business in town.

And that's when Caroline writes to Jane and says, I'm like Charles thought his business would

be concluded in a couple of days, but we can't see that being the case. I think that's

interesting as well, but what do I never see? Bingley this kind of intellectual business savvy guy

to be honest.

Charlie 16:59

He seems quite like a happy go lucky kind of guy. Doesn't he? Just happy and Merry and you

know, the kind of nice personality opposite to Darcy as well.

Izzy 17:09

But on that note then I think it’s be good to talk a bit about Mr. Darcy and his income. So soon

after we hear about Bingley and everyone's excited about that everyone finds out about Mr.

Darcy and his fortune. I'm going to paraphrase a couple of quotes that kind of came out of this.

So, Mr. Darcy soon drew the attention of the room by his fine tall person, handsome features

and the report, which in general circulation within five minutes after her, his entrance over

having 10,000 a year. But he was discovered to be proud to be above his company and above

being pleased and not all his largest state in Darbyshire could have saved him from having a

most formidable, disagreeable, countenance, and being unworthy to be compared with his

friend. So we have a mixed bag there. One is handsome and rich. All the riches of the world

can't save you. If you've got a terrible personality, it would seem.

Charlie 18:05

I mean, I just love how that one sort of a couple of sentences. It just such a damning overall

portrait of one person. He's rich, he's handsome, but also just not nice.

Izzy 18:21

It's very funny. And I love like a little off the adaptations where I'm Elizabeth teases, her mum.

She's like, oh, he's not quite so handsome. Like once Mrs. Bennet's like slagging him off.

She's like, no, not it's all.

Charlie 18:37

Exactly so great. I think the adaptations, both of the ones, I've only seen two adaptations, the

pride and prejudice but I think both of them do a good job of that kind of initial intro scene and

yeah, a little take on it, but it's really good.

Izzy 18:52

And I really enjoy that. So Mr. Darcy's yearly income is set to be 10,000 a year. But estimated,

uh, Fort tune of about 200,000 pounds, he owns half of Derbyshire the miserable half. But

because of like inflation, like I was saying, it's hard to kind of judge what that would be

nowadays, but it's estimated that that's about a hundred million, his fortune, which is massive.

That's a massive fortune. Wow.

Charlie 19:20

Well, he's not going to be wanting money this time, is he?

Izzy 19:26

I mean, these, these big states are expensive to keep, but I still think he be enjoying his time.

That's for sure.

Charlie 19:33

I don't, I think nothing could kind of impart that kind of money. It's kind of Jeff Bezos kind of

Elon Musk kind of vibe.

Izzy 19:42

Yeah. Mr. Darcy going into space. I can see it.

Charlie 19:47

Yeah, if you have the opportunity, he would, you know.

Izzy 19:51

Absolutely, I feel they should be like a modern day take on pride and prejudice is like Elon

Musk.

Charlie 19:59

Yeah. I mean, I'd absolutely watch it, but hate myself for doing so.

Izzy 20:07

Totally, if someone does that, we want to cut now.

Charlie 20:11

We'll trademark it here. Yeah.

Izzy 20:13

A hundred percent. So basically with Darcy's income, what's interesting is a lot of it goes off

gossip, but there's more confirmation later on. Obviously when Elizabeth goes to Pemberley,

we kind of see that he has got this massive estate. And when he writes the letter to Elizabeth

about Wickham's character, we realise that Georgiana has gotten an inheritance of 30,000

pounds. So that kind of starts to put things into place. And we do recognize that yeah, this is a

wealthy guy. I mean like, if we put this into perspective, so Georgetown has got about 30,000

pounds. The Bennet's, Mr. Bennet's total income a year is 2000 pounds. So this is like a

significant difference, like 2000 and he's got five daughters, et cetera. And then you've got Mr.

Darcy, he's got 10,000 new children as of yet. Obviously we don't know what happens after the

novel, at the start of the novel he has no wife. He obviously has a sister, but, he's got little like

expenses, I would say in a lot of money coming in. What were your thoughts in general on

Darcy?

Charlie 21:23

Yeah, he obviously doesn't have many expenditures at all, really. I mean, his estate, as you say,

will take money, but a level of fortune, again, I just wouldn't touch the sides. It would be

obscene amount of money. And if you think he doesn't like socialising, so you won't be hosting

balls, he won't be hosting expensive events. He’s just minted, he’s like a dragon on top of the

pile of gold.

Izzy 21:49

He doesn't like to socialise it’s so true? I love it. Like the rest of us, we're all here. Like we can

really relate Darcy.

Charlie 21:58

He would have loved the pandemic, just sitting at home, counting money. I mean, it would be

fine.

Izzy 22:03

Living the dream. So I'd say that Mr. Darcy's only liability, is actually the fact, that he's got the

connection to Mr. Wickham who keeps rocking up for money. So, he obviously pays them off

and with the estate that he was supposed to get as a clergy. And as I say on every episode, I'm

so glad Mr. Wickham, wasn't a clergy. That would be terrible job for him. Probably the worst.

Charlie 22:27

Yeah. I mean, it's not a very, it doesn't really align with his character.

Izzy 22:32

Not at all. So he paid him out for that. And then Mr. Wycombe came back asking for more

money, which again, he got, so he could go and study the law and then he came back again,

asking him for more money, which then Mr. Darcy refused. Because you can have, obviously

someone can get on your nerves a little bit after a while to keep asking him for all your money,

despite how much money you do have, you don't want to be hunted and ultimately a Wickham

who's clearly not very financially savvy.

Charlie 23:01

Yeah. True. He's definitely not quite the same character as him, money doesn’t last long with

Mr. Wickham he's clearly.

Izzy 23:08

Not investing it and getting his 5%, let's say that.

Charlie 23:12

Absolutely not.

Izzy 23:15

So that's probably Mr. Darcy's kind of downfall is his connection with Wickham. And

unfortunately he doesn't escape that by the end of the book because he has to kind of pay for

the, the wedding of Lydia and Wickham to stop the Bennett being disgraced in society. And he

has to pay off, Wickham’s debt. He also has to pay for Wickham's, commission as well in the

military. So, I mean, that's a lot of when he sets aside and I'm sure we can all agree that that

wouldn't be the end of it.

Charlie 23:43

Absolutely. I feel give it another kind of what six months he’d come back. What if they had kids

here probably somehow work into needing money for that? I mean, I feel like Wickham is going

to be a shadow lab and especially as now he's married Lydia and that all has a tie to Darcy's

wife, Elizabeth. I mean, he's just there forever. He's firmly connected, but just never going to

go. It's quite a shame. Really.

Izzy 24:08

Absolutely. And actually I think Lydia has got kind of the financial touch either, so she

absolutely is going to be expensive as well. And yeah, it's just a shame. I feel like that starts his

downfall. It's Wickham.

Charlie 24:22

Kind of like a shadow, always hanging over him a little bit, but if he is earning that much money

and he does have that larger fortune, would it make a huge impact? I mean, he's never going

to be wanting money, but it's still not great to give it to other people, but you know, it's

probably not going to ruin him. Is it?

Izzy 24:42

Yeah. It just makes you wonder how much money you like Wickham burns through his

gambling habit, because obviously he tries to marry Georgiana as well, like elope and take her,

30,000 pounds. Like again, he obviously can't deal with these fixed incomes. He needs like bits

of income coming in. Obviously when you give him money as a total, he just stumbles it away.

Charlie 25:02

Which, I mean, it's a lot of money. I just feel like if you didn't gamble, it he'll be fairly well off.

Just leave it just chill. There's no need.

Izzy 25:13

Look at these interest rates. Come on.

Charlie 25:15

Just invest it. You'll be fine. Absolutely fine. But, oh, well.

Izzy 25:22

I know so funny though, but yeah. So when I like first lost about this before research and for

me, it was like Mr. Darcy was the wealthiest hero. The way they talk about it is very different

than the other novels and how they talk about the heroes wealth. So this is very much upfront.

We know exactly what he's earned and we see his estates, which I think we see a lot of the

estates in the novels, but I think this is the one that goes into the most detail. And, we get like

a, basically a tour of Pemberly with the guardsmen in Elizabeth.

Charlie 25:58

Yeah, you're right. I think, yeah, we do see other states obviously to some extent, as you say,

but I think if we look at the main heroes, so what although we see Northanger Abbey, that's not

his inheritance, it's not Henry's inheritance, so he'll have a parish right. So he's going to have

obviously a much smaller, actual property scale there. So that's him, Mr. Knightley, we know

does have an estate.

Izzy 26:31

Yeah.

Charlie 26:32

But we don’t go to Donwell, well we do very briefly

Izzy 26:36

To pick strawberries.

Charlie 26:39

As you do. So yeah, obviously Knightley, we know has got a kind of income going on and a

nice house

Izzy 26:44

We hear about Colonel Brandon's and I think they're supposed to go on a trip there, but I don't

know if it ever happens.

Charlie 26:54

Isn't, it it's meant to happen the picnic. And then he gets the letter and has to rush off. So it's

canceled before they go.

Izzy 27:01

Possibly Absolutely. In this. So many of the heroes where it's like, they're actually maybe the

second son. And so they're going to have, they're going to be a clergyman or what have you.

Charlie 27:14

Edmund from Mansfield park, he's not going to inherit Mansfield park either. Cause he's the

second son. So it's quite interesting that quite a few of the heroes aren't endowed with great

properties and are more of a clergy side.

Izzy 27:29

Yeah, it's also interesting. A lot of them have more siblings, whereas, you know, it's just Darcy

and Georgiana and he inherits everything and Georgina’s obviously the female. So she gets her

inheritance as well. But it's, like a portion that's put aside for her.

Charlie 27:44

I mean, he's a great catch really. And in terms of financial, he is number one, what you want to

go for, if that's what you're looking for, which I imagine for a lot of people, but then it wallets.

So yeah.

Izzy 27:56

Exactly, exactly. Okay. No, I love that then. So before we start dissecting the next hero, I'd like

to say a little bit about audible. So moving on to another novel, we have Colonel Brendan. So I

did do a whole episode on Colonel Brandon way back when, and we talked about him in some

detail, but I do think we got that much into his financial situation. So this will be really

interesting. So I believe colonel Brandon was a difficult one for me to find too much about. But

basically I believe his income is about 2000 a year. He was actually the second son, but his

eldest brother dies or something like that. Well, he goes to war and his eldest brother is dealing

with the money, that kind of thing. And, Delafield, which is his estate is now without debt,

according to Mrs. Jennings. Because Brandon cleared all of his brothers debts off, Brandon

has very little expenses. Mrs. Jones says, cause he was obviously is just on his own. I mean, it

isn't that much. That's the equivalent of what the Bennets have, which is really interesting.

Charlie 29:04

Yeah, it is. But again, he doesn't have five daughters, a wife, so, you know, 2000 stretches a lot

further when you don't have six other people relying on it, I suppose. But yeah, you're right.

You would have been, I expected him to be richer than that I think. Because he's older as well.

You know, he is in terms of age, I think he's older than Mr. Darcy in comparison. Right. I think

the Colonel Brandon is, a more mature man. So in a way I kind of expected him just to be more

well off because he's further along in life, which I don't think as a thing really.

Izzy 29:37

No, no, totally. And I think maybe what his downfall has been is that he's had to make up for

his brothers and all the mistakes that he made that maybe it's taken this long for him to get

back on his feet.

Charlie 29:49

Absolutely. We kind of learned a bit about that. Don't we? I mean, he, says he used to know

someone just like Marianne, who obviously all these people he wants to help. They think, I

think he's a very nice man. Maybe almost too nice to his detriment in terms of financial, you

know, perspective. Unfortunately.

Izzy 30:09

Well, we even see that in the book when Edwards cut off from his fortune and colonel

Brandon's like the first one to jump in and be like, I have an estate for Edward that he can

have. But he's like, it's only 300 a year, so he won't be able to marry anyone. But he's really

into, like you said, maybe this is kind of Brendan's downfall. He's just too nice and he wants to

help the people that are struggling. I mean, well, can you imagine if someone coming out to

you and being like, oh, I have an estate, because you’re having a hard time, I'd be like, yes,

absolutely sure. Bring it on. I get married. It's fine. You imagine anyone doing that today? It's

just, yeah. Real altruism.

Izzy 30:51

Oh, I know. Yeah, absolutely. You can see colonel Brandon, being somebody who'd like donate

loads of money to charity or something.

Charlie 30:59

And like almost make himself poor from doing so, which is really, I mean, it's a kind of, if you

think about, about some of meaning of charity, I suppose, but like it's not something you see

these days.

Izzy 31:10

No, exactly. And I feel like the fact that he just had a church on his estate that he could give to

Edward probably means that that is quite a lot of tenants in their states as well, because

usually that's why there's a church there. So that like obviously people who work for you can

go to church together. I'm assuming, I think that was the case, like what it looked like pulled off

and stuff that seems to be the case. Everyone goes to church together.

Charlie 31:33

Yeah, I think so. And then obviously he would get the late the front bench cause there's the

most important. Right. And then everyone is behind going on my limited knowledge.

Izzy 31:43

No, exactly.

Charlie 31:44

Which is on the states.

Izzy 31:47

So I'm thinking he's obviously he's got some income from his estate and maybe with time that

that money went up, I mean, two thousands, what I found, like I said, everyone, I mean, we

need to do this. Research is difficult to pinpoint at times how much people are worth, but that

is kind of the number that I found the most.

Charlie 32:07

Yeah. I think that must be about right. Did you, did you mention, look at, uh, the other

characters from sense and sensibility much, did you have a look at what they were kind of on

in comparison to Colonel Brandon?

Izzy 32:22

Yeah. So I think that pretty much like all around the same ballpark actually. I mean, it might just

be a book whether people do have of less going on for them, I guess. What's really interesting

about sense and sensibility is, the Edward situation where he's meant to inherit the fortune, et

cetera. And then the fact that his mom, so the female line is able to take that away. Now I think

a lot of people think because of pride and prejudice and the fact that the estate is entailed

away from the Bennett siblings that, basically that happens in all cases. But it actually doesn't.

So, a woman can inherit property or money if she is the only direct. Uh, so, and when she

marries a settlement can assure that the property or the money stays with her children. Uh, so

we see that in the case of, lady Catherine, she's able to pass, hurt the fortune over to, lady

Underberg. And also in this case, it's Mrs. Ferris who has control of the money, even though

she's a widow, I believe it's in her name, the money. So she's able to say I'm taking it from

Edward and I'm giving it to Robert instead, even though he's the second son, I mean this

totally backfires, I think it's absolutely hilarious that she does this because Edward wants to

Mario Lisa seal and then Lucy still goes for Robert instead. And because Robin's been given

this, he no longer has to ask his mother for permission.

Charlie 33:47

She rocked it. Didn't she earlier under appreciated mastermind is all losing steel. I feel.

Izzy 33:56

There was nobody more calculated. Come on. I mean, seriously, that is just shocking. I feel like

you couldn't do that with anyone over then, Edward though, Edward's like enough of a

pushover in so many ways that he's just like, oh yeah, she married my brother and said like,

what does.

Charlie 34:12

And the fact that everyone takes it quite well as well. They're like, oh, okay. And I'm like, that's

weird, literally engaged to the other brother, like a month ago I stopped.

Izzy 34:23

How does she even manage that as well? Like that's honestly, it's very busy.

Charlie 34:28

What other ball? I think they meet, she meets Robert at a ball. Doesn't she? And then straight,

pretty much straight off to it. She's well in there. So she got some good Intel pretty quickly and

just.

Izzy 34:40

She was just like, she was dead set on that particular fortune. And she was like, oh, it's not

gone. It's gone from Edward to Robert. I'm going for Robert now.

Charlie 34:48

Love it. I mean, hats off too. I’m like good for her. You got to do what you gotta do.

Izzy 34:55

Got to survive in this world, guys, come on.

Charlie 35:01

As much as I like him, he is a bit, he's quite nice. Isn't it? You're like, That's how I would exactly

how I'd phrase it. Here's a bit of a wet blanket. Really. It's kind of like, oh, well being married to

him would probably be quite annoying.

Izzy 35:18

I know. Can you imagine he never make any decision? What'd you want for tea and he’s just

like, oh, I don’t a mind, which one today or tomorrow?

Charlie 35:26

Yeah. No, I think, yeah, I'd last a few months before I'd accidentally ax murder him. Hi, Robert.

Izzy 35:42

So funny the way thing, that's what makes sense and sensibility secret interest in though, is

there, is that, that female line and they're able to control the money. So yeah, so if we look at

Edward after that point, once he's disinherited, , and he takes like the live in of Colonel

Brendan's 300, I think then with Eleanor's, money on top of that, it'd be like 850 pounds a year

to live on, which is quite minimal compared to you. I think Edwards inheritance was supposed

to be around 2000 pounds a year, , as well. So very similar to Colonel brands. And they're

pretty much equal in that sense when it comes to heroes, , which is really different. So pride

and prejudice were Bingley and Darcy it's so significantly different.

Charlie 36:31

I didn't actually look at how much does, will it be? I mean, we know like, will it, will it be the

financial situation's quite interesting obviously, because it dictates so much of what he does in

the book, but how much has he got rocking on?

Izzy 36:43

So I'm not a hundred percent sure, but Mrs. Smith's for, so she has an estate in a fortune and

that's meant to go to Willoughby, but she disinherits him upon learning that Eliza got pregnant.

And the fact that will it be refuses to marry her, , sued that's why will it be, then goes after Ms.

Gray and her 50,000 pounds? So when will it be Mary's, he's pretty well off, but I think Ms.

Smith's, fortune, I think we'd probably be in between the 2,004,000 ballpark, I think.

Charlie 37:15

Again, clever boy, but he still would be like a great. Maybe that is how this all happens. Nice

little part in some parlour offer. Are you going to.

Izzy 37:33

Do, how are you going to sort yourself? Well, Ms. Gray, I mean, that's impressive. 50,000

pounds. That's a massive Fort you.

Charlie 37:44

Yeah. That's more than Georgeanna Darcy, right? So she is absolutely cream of the crop. Great

target go for it with,.

Izzy 37:52

Honestly, and what confuses me is why she would go for Willoughby actually, if he's just cause

he was like young and youthful and good-looking and fun, but I'm like-

Charlie 38:00

Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Maybe it was just a case of maybe her other options are all just old, man.

You know the usual, because we have to imagine back then, you're probably not, not going to

have a great, even if you're a fabulous city welfare, you're still going to have a pretty poor

selection of people coming after you most of the time. And if you look at all the social pressure

to make good matches as well, that cuts your pool considerably down. So maybe she was just

like, I'll marry someone hot.

Izzy 38:31

Yeah. I mean, she's got the money to do so. So why not? She's got, yeah.

Charlie 38:37

As long as he has behaved and doesn't gamble it all the way and stuff, then it should be fine

really.

Izzy 38:43

Well. Not the fact that he's like moping over some other woman's stale. I'm living like drunk at

people's houses, but-

Charlie 38:49

I mean, it's not an ideal match. Yeah. He can cry into like golden tissues. It's fine. Yeah-

Izzy 39:01

Absolutely. That's so funny. So I think insensitive sensibility then what is suggests is people all

pretty much on the same ballpark I'm guessing, was interested in the fact that it's Edward's

money goes down. The female line is obviously the dashboards doesn't and that's why they

end up in the particular where they go to, Barton cottage in the first place because their money,

doesn't pass on to them. It's it's already been, it goes to the son, the first son, from his

previous wife. So that's why they basically have no money whatsoever. So that's really

interesting that there's two different scenarios in the same book.

Charlie 39:38

And I think again, if you compare it to pride and prejudice, so this is the scenario that maybe

Mary Bennett will be facing in the future. You know, think about it. The, the words scenario

when Mr. Bennett dies is going to have that exact same scenario, if you think about it. So it'd

be interesting in a way to see what she would have done if people did explore that.

Izzy 40:03

Well, my days, can you imagine moving to a cottage with Mrs Bennet?

Charlie 40:08

Well, I'm sure her nerves would take up most of the space.

Izzy 40:14

So I think moving on from sentence sensibility, the next book that I want to look at is

persuasion. So money and persuasion is really interesting because, all though ans families to

the Elliot family actually, status wise in a really good position, since Ann's mother died, they've

gone into a bit of disarray. It would see him. Yeah. So, basically, so we'll to Elliot's four shoe

and I think is around like what, what the moment is about 10,000 pounds, which will be divided

amongst the children.

• 40:47 - 41:28

So Ann will get about 3000 pounds upon his death and potentially, but then we have to bear in

mind that he's got a lot of debt. He basically, he has to move out of his house, um, to go to his

house in town, um, because he's got so much debt and really can't afford to live properly. Um,

both of his daughters are much older, so Ann's around 27. I don't think Elizabeth is young guy.

The, so, and they're both on marriage. Um, he obviously has Ms. Clay dotted around because I

think he's thinking about, um, Marie and her, um, to try and bring some more money and I

guess, but, um, it looks like most of that, that, that fortune, the Elliot fortunate go-to you're Mr.

Elliott, I believe. And obviously Mr. Elliot, um, tries to go for an Ansel interested in Wentworth,

so it doesn't really work out too well for them. Uh, I also think, um, so we'll to Elliot's in like

debt to credit it. So I don't know if he's got a bit of a gambling problem as well, but he's like

owes other people money. Um, but it definitely says that they're, they're not in a good position

at all.

Charlie 41:59

Yeah. I think isn't it, it's kind of hinted that almost part of it is, has kind of own vanity as well.

So maybe he spends a lot of money on cloves and nice furniture, you know, making

appearances better than what they are. So maybe that is a big part of it. Is he bites off more

than he can afford?

Izzy 42:16

Yeah, no, I think a hundred percent, like a lot of his character is keeping up appearances. Like

he's obsessed with it. So I hundred percent agree. Like even when Anne's like, we need to

make cuts here and there he's like, no, we're not doing that because what will people think of

us in that kind of thing? I it's like, well, what Paul we're actually in reality,.

Charlie 42:36

It doesn't really matter what we think if we can't live anywhere else.

Izzy 42:40

And what's really interesting as we realised the tables have really turned because on originally

refused, went left first proposal because he had no faults and went with then goes off to the

ball and comes back with 25,000 pounds worth of a Fort to, and which, um, if we go with that

5% farriers adjust those, uh, I think it's just under 1,500 pounds a year, which, you know, isn't

on Bingley's level, but that's still really decent when you have nothing to begin with. Um,.

Charlie 43:10

And earned as well. Again, not inherited, he's earned it. It's again, it's this whole thing where

he's done it himself. So people would have that snobbery against him, but it's, Hey, it's a good

amount of money. It's good standing. So.

Izzy 43:23

I think it's impressive if you come from nowhere. And I did a little bit of research because I saw

that it was prize money and I was very confused. I was like, what is this? There's a lot lottery.

But I did a little bit of research on it. And basically, um, during the Napoleonic wars, if you were

on a ship, you were kind of, there was reward money. If you were able to capture friendships in

their crew. And basically that reward money was then split amongst everybody on the ship. If

you were the captain, you got a big of a portion of it. Um, so that's basically where

Wentworth's fortune comes from because he's at the top of the food chain is the captain and

he gets quite a lot of money out of it. Um, and like I said, it's not massive, but it is when you've

come from nothing. And you've basically earned all this money in your career. And, um, I think

that even though like obviously in the realms of persuasion and so will to Elliot, he really looks

down on Naval officers. But I think in general, if you were captain, I think you all doing quite

well at that point. Yes.

Charlie 44:22

I think socially, they are quite irrespectable. I think the military is kind of different from trade

isn't it? Because the military is keeping the country safe and it has got that good connotations

of you're fighting for the right thing and all of that. So it's kind of slightly separated from

someone who sells carpets or something, you know, probably make your money doing that

too. But people are going to be like, oh right, you're fighting for your country against the French

and commanding a vessel. You know, it's got all this Gloria with it as well, so you're probably

much more respected.

Izzy 44:58

Yeah, I think so. And I think along with that comes a title, even though it's not like cerebral

Lords or anything along those lines, it's still, it's still a title. Like captain Wentworth is still pretty

impressive. And um, you know, just, you know, John, oh, you.

Charlie 45:15

Bob.

Izzy 45:18

Bob new stages, no title. Hello. I sell my carpets.

Charlie 45:24

Well, yeah. Sorry, Bob. It's not happening. Get a ship and we'll talk.

Izzy 45:31

Can you get yourself some prizes, man? I get down to bingo. Funny. So in terms of like

persuasion, that's pretty much, um, a lot of what I was looking at. Did you have any thoughts

on Wentworth and persuasion and income?

Charlie 45:47

I think, I mean, what surprised me most about persuasion was actually how well off they are. I

think when I, every time I read it, I kind of always think of him because he's a sea captain, not

actually being as rich as he is just because again, he is earning it himself. He has done

something and I kind of have this weird vision in my head where all the people in Austen who

are super, super mega rich, like Darcy don't do anything. Say the fact that he has actually got a

profession and things like that. It's easy to forget how well-off he is. You know, that 14 is a

good fortune to have. And if you add this money into it, if she does get money, of course,

depending on the inheritance, that very well-off couple. So.

Izzy 46:27

Yeah, I think so. And I mean, there's no scene that they could even have Tilden after this point.

Cause obviously and 27, which I know isn't, it's not that old, lots of people have children's their

first, but you never know in that time periods. And also you never know about this particular

situation. So if it was to be the two of them, um, or even one child, it's, it's still going to go

quite far, that money is. And I think for an, any situation is going to be good now because one

she's on like the brink of being classed as like a spinster or an old mate. And, um, two, she still

manages to marry somebody that she loves. And three he's actually in a financial situation.

That's better off than her father.

Charlie 47:06

If anything, she, yeah, she's got a better life ahead. Um, her sister doesn't really pushy from

what I can remember. I don't think there's any.

Izzy 47:18

Yeah. So you, Mary married, Charles who, and they're just like living, they have kids and

everything, but she doesn't seem like she's like living the best life,.

Charlie 47:27

All about everything. Well, I find really interesting. I, Jane must have hated someone called

Mary, right? Every character called Mary is just totally miserable or boring, or I kind of love that.

Izzy 47:47

I love this. She writes one of her like most beautiful and like loving characters. Jane. It's just,.

Charlie 47:53

I love that. Just like the most beautiful all the family was named Jane like me, I mean.

Izzy 48:03

Guys. If I'm writing a book, the main character who's wonderful and exciting and beautiful

name will be Izzy. Okay.

Charlie 48:12

Handsome, clever, rich, perfect.

Izzy 48:16

I'm putting it out there. It needs to happen. Well maybe if I find somebody else who's writing a

book, I'll say to them, I’ve got an idea for a character for you. Oh, dear so funny. So I think from

that, it's really interesting to see, um, somebody from the military is actually doing well because

from reference, some of the other characters are in the military that we see all Brittany, not like

Wickham. Obviously we see him gambling in a way all of his fortune doesn't really have any

money himself, particularly the militia. Like I didn't realise this, but that's like a specific branch

that was made for people who don't have any money or have done something bad to society.

Um, I think it's interesting that we don't actually like WIC and tries to say to Elizabeth it's

because he doesn't have any money and he's trying to make his way. But when I read that, I

was like, it's really interesting that actually Wickham could have been in the militia because of

his behaviour.

Charlie 49:10

Absolutely. Yeah, of course. That would make perfect sense. Wouldn't it? Um, I hadn't really

considered that before that it does make real logical sense cause he is a bad boy.

Izzy 49:23

Oh, I didn't think about that. But I was like, considering me lies about everything else. I mean,

wha what's to say that that's not why he's in there originally. Anyway,.

Charlie 49:31

I think I would, if anything, that would add an extra element of his character. I think that really

does make perfect sense. So maybe people reading it back when it was first written would

have completely got that. That's something we've lost as moderators of just understanding

that from the word go. So that was interesting.

Izzy 49:48

Yeah, I know. So yeah, I think it's nice to have cats in Wentworth and him to be kind of a

successful military personnel. I like it. Um, so let's move on to the next books. The next one I

have on my list is Emma. And as we were saying that the star Emma's is like such a unique

book because our heroine is handsome, clever, rich, all of the in between she's living the

dream.

Charlie 50:12

Yeah, it's great because it changes the whole framework. Look at Austen novels. We're looking

at people who are searching for husbands basically as the main drive of the whole character

journey. A lot of the time Emma doesn't need that. So she's having fun. She is playing with

society, you know, it's great. It's a really different and more comedic book I think. And that's

why it's my favourite. I just think it's really funny and has the chance to play with things that the

other one was don't necessarily have because everyone isn't in a great position. Um, but it also

shows how too much money is also possibly a bad thing in terms of just how you treat other

people in some ways like Ms. Smith has kind of carried along with her and I, the intention is

good obviously, but it is all about kind of here's my, I'm a rich person and here's my kind of

play thing vibe in some places, which is yeah,.

Izzy 51:08

Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. I think you're right there. Like the fact that Emma has money means

that we don't have that same anxiety about finances in this book in the same way. Um, I think

like how are you, Smith is probably more like our usual heroines in the sense that it's kind of

uncertain. Um, and they, they even say, cause obviously Amma's convinced that Harry is in a

position to marry Mr. Elton, but, um, miss the night, at least like nobody knows what Harriet's

upbringing is. They don't know who a family are. She's obviously lives in, in like a bored in

school, so nobody really knows what's going on there. And um, I think because I'm a say

wealthy, she doesn't actually realise the bounds of what that means like financially. And I think

as read as we end up seeing it through MSIs and we kind of forget those concerns and what

it's like, if you don't have the money. And again, I think it's interesting to see, um, the Emma

and her sister actually will do okay. Even though that there's no kind of male, um, line, they'll

still inherit the money. I think it will be that husbands who control it. But I think stale, you know,

it's, there's a lot of the same family. I mean they both very nightly, so.

Charlie 52:20

It's just kind of weird. Right. But I mean, we'll forget that, but it's still a bit odd. I mean, I think

we're aware to things in Austen.

Izzy 52:32

Right. No, that's so true. So Mr. Knightley is the hero he's in a pretty good position. Um, he's

classed as a land owner and gentlemen and farmer, which is really interested. I think he's a

little bit more hands on than we see some of the other gentlemen being, like he's quite close

with Robert Moss and catches up with him and chats with him. And we see that, which I think

is really nice. Donwell Abby, he's the eldest son, so he's actually the one going to inherit it. Um,

I think some people think that, his brother John's the oldest because he marries first and he

moves away. But actually John moves to London with Isabella because, um, he wants to make

his own fortune. And obviously that may be in trade or what have you, but he moves to London

to do that. So, um, yeah, I think that's really interesting. I saw somewhere that it says that Mr.

Natalie has little spam money, but then saw somewhere else that said Mr. Knightley was really

well off. So I'm not a hundred percent sure. I do know why you wouldn't have loads of money.

He's got no like no children at the time. Yeah.

Charlie 53:36

Unless you've secretly gambling alone seems to be the curse of everyone back then. I think he

should be fine. He's yeah. I can't imagine him spending money on things that wouldn't need

and spending money on. You know what I mean? He's not frivolous. If anything, that's

something he hates and other people, um, he's more than likely not a gambler. He's not an

alcoholic, you know, what's, he wouldn't be able to spend through it. I wouldn't imagine. So he

should be okay.

Izzy 54:04

Right. And I think that actually Donwell supposed to be the grandest estate in Highbury. Um,

so, with that being said, technically it would suggest he's in a better position than Emma, I

would say.

Charlie 54:18

Yeah. Otherwise why would they be living in arm less ground place with all that money, you

know, and we know that she's certainly not lacking.

Izzy 54:28

Right. Yeah. So I'm not a hundred percent sure, but I would say obviously he has tenants. We

know that he has Robert Martin who has a farm, there's all income coming in from that. Um, I'd

say potentially he's maybe around more Bingley's area, maybe a little bit more than that.

Maybe around 5,000 a year. Um, hybrid's a smaller town then I'm like dog shit with Dawsey. So

I'm assuming there's probably less income. Like his estate isn't quite as grand, but um, like

obviously Dawsey sent over half of dollars, so that was quite a.

Charlie 55:01

Tricky one to compete with.

Izzy 55:05

Exactly. So, and obviously the fact that he's close with the wood houses and, um, I think we

see with Anna, like some of her snobbery, like when, I think it's the clays invite her around and

they're from trade and Emma's like reluctant to accept their invite, even though they, they all

quite wealthy basically. Like we see from Bingley being in trade doesn't mean you're not

wealthy. She still were looked and because of their position in society. So it's interesting. But

Emma said to have an inheritance of about 30,000 pounds, so similar to Georgiana Darcy and,

yeah, I mean, if you think about that and then think about Mr. Knightley bringing in kind of like

5,000 DSA, um, 5% of 30,000 as well, it'd be, you know, 1,500 on top of that. So it was talking

about like nearly, you know, just under seven grand, say a year that's pretty decent, you know,

w we're bordering what Darcy's bringing in a year. So, um, I think they'd be given a.

Charlie 56:04

Nice today's money, right?

Izzy 56:06

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Right. Totally be millionaires that the settled in the town that they're

in, it doesn't seem like they travel too much. I know that, Mr. Knightley travels to London

sometimes, and he goes and stays with like John and Isabella, but then again, like, you know, I

mean, they've got a property there, he goes and stays with them. They don't, these aren't

lavish people. And they'll, I, I think that she does indulge and things, but I don't think you don't

see her over indulging. Like somebody like Mrs. Elton who really flaunts things or, um, even

someone like Mary Crawford, who's obsessed with wealth and status. So I think, yeah, I think

they seem like people who are pretty content with that what's going on. And, yeah, even

though I think they do involve themselves and things that cost more money. So we really

interesting.I said, I don't know if you haven't seen the repair shop on the, on the tele. No. Okay.

There's this program in the UK, it's called the repair shop. Anyway, someone brought in this

scrapbook and they did like backgrounds on it. And they were saying how, um, kind of in the

Regency era, scrapbooking was really popular amongst people with lots of money. Cause it

was really expensive thing to do. And, I think, Emma and Harriet actually created a scrapbook

together. So that made me think like, oh, we say she, Paul takes some things that do cost more

money. But I don't think she's, you know, over the top with it. So, yeah, I think both of them

would be pretty okay. Living happily.

Charlie 57:36

Yeah. You're right. Emma, can't go too over the top because one of the things she hates about

Mrs. Elton is that she is too out there and stuff, isn't it? So I think there's a sort of, yeah.

Refusal to be that flamboyant. So she wouldn't be spending tons of money on dresses. She

wouldn't be spending lots of money on impressing people because they already know who she

is and she knows that she's great.

Izzy 58:03

Yeah. Who does she need to impress? She lives in the same time that she has a whole life.

Everybody respects so, and adores her. Um, she doesn't really need to, it's not like she's going

into London. I mean, she hardly travels very much at all, so it's not like she's going into

London. Um, and you know, going to balls that where she'll be around people who felt like the

latest fashion, et cetera, she's around people that in that society, she would already be 10,000

steps ahead of them. So, um, yeah, I think that means that they don't need to spend as much

because of that.

Charlie 58:38

If you look at her immediate circle as well, I mean, to bring it back, I mean, she does still see

Ms. Bates and all of that who are obviously so far below her in terms of financial status. So

there is no need to impress anyone. They all, like, as you say, they probably already view her as

this massive pinnacle of everything good. So she's having a great time. And she also has to do,

you know, they shouldn't have to spend the money on entertainments or anything because

again, they would like anything. So yeah, it's quite easy.

Izzy 59:11

Right. But then another situation in AMA, which is really interesting is Frank Churchill situation,

which is very similar to Willoughby's. So Frank Churchill is taken in by the, um, he's obviously

Mr. Westerns, um, sent from his original marriage, but he's taking it in, um, by his aunt and, um,

he set to inherit their estate and fortune. Um, but, uh, basically that's why he keeps his

engagement to Jane's secret because he knows that that will be in the he's disinherited. So

like, Willoughby comes of ties? They have to do what they're told by their aunts, et cetera. And

I think you seen mold with Franklin Willoughby, how much this affects their freedom because

you see it in Frank's like turmoil where he's, um, in his behaviour. Like he acts out quite a lot

because of it. Um, in the end, obviously his aunt dies and he inherits a fortune is able to marry

Jane, um, which you know is great. Great, great for Jane Jane,.

Charlie 1:00:16

The most sense to have artistic women jealous of love that.

Izzy 1:00:24

So true. I know they funny. So they end up being pretty well off and I think that's nice because,

um, it means there's, and, and this, this sounds crazy, like think how many, like big couples

they've got going on and they got a nightly and Emory let the king and queen of hybri they've

got bloomin' Frank and Jay and rocket up now. Like it's definitely turning into quite a, um,

affluent area.

Charlie 1:00:48

Absolutely. It's like the Chelsea gosh, mental.

Izzy 1:00:50

I know it's kind of crazy. So, yeah, I think money and Emma's definitely an interesting one just

because there's more of it going around. So yeah, absolutely. I think that's, that's great. Are

you happy to move on to the next book? Okay. So the next one we have on our list is a

month's field park. And, um, I feel we talk about Edmund Birch and first, but I think the money

in Mansfield's really interesting because of where it's come, where it comes from in the first

place. So, I'm pretty sure it's got something to do with, the slave trade on the sugar plantation

in the west Indies. So Thomas Bertram seems to go off a lot over there and like tries to figure

things out, et cetera. So I think how of all the books, this one's definitely a lot more

controversial of whether our wealth comes from.

Charlie 1:01:47

Okay. Absolutely. I think that's kind of, that kind of plays into all of that. It's kind of like, oh, they

may be wealthy, but there's that sort of general kind of feeling that it's not good wealth through

something that's very, yeah. I don't know. I think that's kind of undecided, isn't it? It's kind of

running through the book that the Bertrams are not very nice people for not just because of

their actions, so,.

Izzy 1:02:13

Right, right. Absolutely. And they're said to be pretty, pretty well off, but again, they have a

gambler in the family amongst them it's who causes a little bit of financial strain. So the eldest

brother, Thomas who's set to inherit the estate has a serious gambling and party problem. In

fact, nearly dies from it.

Charlie 1:02:36

I mean, rock on, he takes it to that level. You've got a-

Izzy 1:02:42

I can do. I feel like he's the only, like he really takes a fall, it gives, goes extreme with this guy.

So, but because of Olivia's actions, C means the Edmond is denied, um, like the clergy

position on that particular state, he has to go and find like a number one because of his

brother's actions and they can't afford to give, Edmond that property. They have to give it to

somebody else, which because of that role in the Crawfords. So, um, the Crawford's a pretty

well-off, Henry Crawford brings in about 400,000 a year, so very close to being glee. Mary

Crawford does an inheritance of two 20,000 pounds, so really decent. And that really interested

in the Bertrams the fact that Mary's so interested in Edmonds and the family. And at one point

she actually wishes that, Thomas was dead so that Edwin could take her.

Charlie 1:03:37

I kind of love her for that. She's quite open with her. Yeah. Ambitions isn't she? And she just

doesn't want to mess about she's like the closed with boring.

Izzy 1:03:47

Yeah. The pick something else. How about the little, how about the military?

Charlie 1:03:52

I mean, she's very, it's quite refreshing in a way, um, to have someone like that in an Austen

mobile, who's just, quite outwardly awful, but in a quite enjoyable way. So.

Izzy 1:04:04

I think she's a really interesting character. I really enjoy her, like you said, cause she's so open

about her feelings about money and possession she's she says, this is what I want. Um, I I'm

really into you, but I can't marry you unless, you know, we're on the same wavelength here in, I

mean, Edmond really, he goes as far as being like, I might change what I'm going to do so that

it can be with Mary it's only until she goes, he goes to London with her and finds out that she's

like really materialistic and a bit snobby and then he changes his night. But, um, yeah, it's really

interesting. So these families are entangled and then, um, also Mr. Rushworth, who's actually

engaged to Mariah. Mr. Rushworth is actually the wealthiest person mentioned, I believe in

Austen’s books like male wise. So he has 12,000 a year, so more than Darcy.

Charlie 1:04:53

Okay. Yeah. But that's a shocker look at that. Yeah. So she's a fool really.

Izzy 1:05:00

I believe she was about to say Mariah is the biggest numpty of all of these women because she

gets Mr. Roche with only to run off with Henry and obviously hadn't herself, you know, bods

off, but she's not married to Henry. So she just disgraces herself and ends up living with Mrs.

Charlie 1:05:21

Bad times. Oh Mariah.

Izzy 1:05:25

Why, why would you do that? So I knew this rush comes about cost is a bit of a, a bit of a non

tea, to be honest with you. But, um, yeah, the he's, he's a wealthy guy. He's got a lot of money

going around. So, um, that's really interesting, I think, and I think the fact that, um, Mr

Rushworth is interested in Mariah would suggest that the Bertram’s have a lot of money.

Charlie 1:05:47

Yeah. It's going to be a good connection. Isn't it? Regardless. So he wouldn't have deemed

with that level of fortune to go for anyone who wasn't a good match to begin with. Um, but

yeah, I mean she's stupid. Well, you're really rich, man. Who's stupid. Great partner. Think

about it. You could just have the best life. Like he's not smart enough to catch on to anything

you're doing. Marry him. Have a great time.

Izzy 1:06:11

Literally. This is why she's takes it too far, runs off with Henry. Well, what she helped to come

on.

Charlie 1:06:17

I mean, to that, how old is Mariah?

Izzy 1:06:20

She's not that old. Yeah. She is quite young. I think she's probably around like 20, 22. I think it

may be Emma's age like around that time period. Yeah. We all make stupid.

Charlie 1:06:28

Mistakes, but I mean, gosh, what a bad one.

Izzy 1:06:31

I know it was terrible as he literally had fathers, like she wants to call off the engagement and

go with somebody else. Like she had the option and she says no, and then goes and messes it

up anyway.

Charlie 1:06:46

Yeah. So book of bad decisions.

Izzy 1:06:44

It really is. It's really interesting. Yeah. A hundred percent that like, well what happens in the

book? And, yeah, I think so in, in the end, obviously funny and Edmund get married. And,

basically what I found online is they'd be living off around 700 a year because funny obviously

doesn't have anything to bring to the table. So, and then I had to look in an estimate for about

what that would be in this day and age is actually around 35,000 pounds, which is a single

income it's is fantastic for two people who are then going to go on to have children, is a little

bit tighter. So yeah, they're not, they're not terrible, but they're, yeah, it's definitely going to be

tied to then some of the other couples, I believe that may be probably more on par with, um,

Edward and Allen all at that point. So again, but then, you know, th that's the nature of

marriage. It's marrying someone who becomes a clergy. Obviously you have a lot of security

though in that position. So, um, you have somewhere to live, you've got connections with the

Philly.

Charlie 1:07:46

Property or anything you, if you're in the clergy or given as a career or a passage or whatever.

So, I mean, there is no expense of that, I suppose. So compared to someone else who doesn't

have that, who would earn the same income, they would probably be better off financially, but.

Izzy 1:08:02

Yeah. Right, right. So the difference between, had he married Mary and still being a clergyman,

which I just don't think I ever would have happened, but they would have been looking at

more, um, closest two grand a year, so very different situation, but he never would have

married Mary and also being a clergyman. So there probably would have been more income

because of that. So yeah, I think that's really interesting though. Um, there's again, a lot of

money gearing around on this little park, but also a lot of negative energy around that money.

Theres some bad people about, and definitely this, that greed, I think in that, in this book.

Charlie 1:08:41

Interesting. But because it is my least favourite just because I find funny, funny, and admins

quite inseparable, which is obviously not what you want from your main characters. Um, but I

do think natural dynamic is so interesting. So it was a shame that in a way it's not as

entertaining because they look beneath the surface, as he saved as greed, there's turmoil,

there's all these characters who were very on it, of what they want and all these scandals. But

somehow, because we're getting it all from Fanny's perspective and things, that's all a bit like,

oh.

Izzy 1:09:16

Right. It was really strange. Like in comparison to some of the sofas is how inshallah this book

is. Like a lot of it's just set in the house in, do you, I mean, I, I always think it's really weird

compared to like pride and prejudice. I mean, she moves around the whole of the country or

Anna that she goes around the town, we meet different people were in different houses, uh,

Mansfield park. So inshallah, it's like a bubble impart. Like you just know it's all going to come

crumbling down really.

Charlie 1:09:47

And it does. I mean, gosh, it does. So, yeah, I also, I mean, this is just a personal thing, but I

find the ending of the ankle part really weird because a chapter before the end, they're still kind

of calling each other brother and sister and then suddenly it's like, but then we got married. It

was great. And it was like, oh, okay.

Izzy 1:10:01

Right. Honestly, if anyone's listed, I have an episode that is cold and funny price, heroin or

heroin, not heroin, heroin, or house elf. And, in that I literally, I talk about these five, then it's like

the Tolkien is if their preferences, at the start it says that they compare Edmonds who her

actual brother and then they get married and yeah, it's, it's like totally brushed under, but in

that book itself, they actually talk about how weird is to marry cousins and things like that. And

I'm like, that's so strange that they mentioned how weird it would be and then it still happens.

Charlie 1:10:36

Yeah. Right. Like in a way I kind of feel she should have married Henry coffered and then

reformed him and, you know, kind of, but instead it just kind of went for a weird kind of vaguely

sort of incest, but not incest.

Izzy 1:10:54

So interesting. I literally had this conversation in another episode, I'm with aunt Anne and she

actually turned around to me and she said, I actually thought that Henry Crawford would be

reformed in him and funny, he gets together and he'd be more like a Mr. Darcy character that it

was all like, he was able to overcome his, his bad nature. And then we'll obviously miss Darcy's

in that bud. But it's like those characteristics that aren't favourable and then becomes a really

good hairy, basically in the end. And I agree, I think Henry Crawford situation, I mean 4,000 a

year, I really believe that had, we did actually have feelings so funny. I think he's a fickle person

by, I did think his feelings for a funny word genuine, because what else can he get from that?

Charlie 1:11:35

What else, why would you do it? You know? And it may have started off with maybe a little bit

of the game, but I mean, you don't take a game,.

Izzy 1:11:43

Right. There's nothing to be gained from it. And I think that he, if all the people he's honest with

these, always honest with his system, Mary, and he even says to Mary, like, actually, I'm, I'm

kind of interested in funny now. So, I wish Fannie had been the one to tame Henry and they

could have had like a good life together. Because I just funny and Edmond, it doesn't work for

me. I'm sorry.

Charlie 1:12:09

It's bad vibes. It's really weird.

Izzy 1:12:14

I know. Absolutely. And also I'm really sorry, but if I was this one and they'd been totally caught

in another woman for the entire of my book and then they come up. No,.

Charlie 1:12:23

Yeah, absolutely. That like, even like little things, he was always just like, oh, I'm going to do

this with Mary bye. And it was just like, you're, you're not nice. He's not that nice as a person

he's quite insufferably pious, which, you know, fine. But like where are certain bits when you're

saying you're quite boring, just preaching at me and yeah, no, he's not the one.

Izzy 1:12:47

No, no, he's, he's definitely not my favourite either. And um, yeah. I definitely think it's an

interesting family dynamic and how it all comes about in the end is, um, surprising. I think

funny is the only one probably funny and ended the only ones that really thrive at the end, but

they don't really thrive in either. So.

Charlie 1:13:09

Yeah. Everyone's in a kind of tolerable position, but it's not great.

Izzy 1:13:17

Yeah. Yeah. Really not amazing. That's for sure suit. That's pretty much all of the books that I

had on the list and all of the people. Do you have anyone else from any of the books or

anything else you want to mention on, on like the increment total bigger to delight some cross-

comparison who do we think it would go for?

Charlie 1:13:36

Oh gosh, that is a tricky one. Well, I mean, from a financial point, where are we going? Well, Mr.

Rushworth apparently, if we're just going to be a fortune hunters, he's top of my list. I'm going

to team up with Lucy Steele. We'll have a little chat. And.

Izzy 1:13:55

I think if I wanted a decent husband on the money, I think Mr. Darcy is still looking like a pretty

good catch.

Charlie 1:14:01

Yeah. I think Darcy fits that dream in so many ways. Doesn't he? He's the nice guy underneath

it all. His welfare he's got a, yeah, it's off the county. You can't really go too far wrong with him.

I still like Bingley as an option. I think he's sweet. He's obviously a little bit thick to be easily

influenced by everyone. I mean, I do, I've always liked Mr. Knightley. And again, Don, well,

Abby, I could live there.

Izzy 1:14:33

Old money again. So Mr. Darcy, Mr. Bailey had the benefit of being kind of like a more

established person, but then Bingley has the benefit. If you were to be with Bengali, you could

reinvent like that. Funnily showed you, you like, you will to start at the line in a sense still. So

there's still room to grow a lot, I think.

Charlie 1:14:52

Yeah. And especially as in, you know, if we think about how things eventually trade, like change

a few hundred years down the line, I mean, ancestral money, doesn't cut it. So trade money is

where it's at. So really if we had the great fortune of foresight, then people being lazy is

probably the better option.

Izzy 1:15:12

Right? Like trade only gets better and better. I mean, look at the industrial revolution when we

were talking about like a bit down the line. Like if you look at Elizabeth Gaskell's books, like

north and south, that's kind of sat around Cheshire Manchester area and I like thrive in at that

point. So if Mr. Finley sticks with it, you know,.

Charlie 1:15:29

Absolutely. Mr. Thornton he's yeah, he was well off. Right. So there we go. Tradesmen for the

land.

Izzy 1:15:36

Yeah. But the question is, do you want the new money? Do you want the old money will ever

get?

Charlie 1:15:41

I mean, money in general would have great, fine. As long as you don't have to be stuck with

someone like Mr. Collins, I think you're fine, right?

Izzy 1:15:49

Oh my gosh. No, I can't even imagine that. We've pretty awful. And I think we have a lot of

them, they have this income coming in. I think that's what would put me off Wentworth slightly

is even though they've got the interest to live off, that's kind of in terms of what's going to be

coming in from this place. Not like they have land with like tenant farmers, that kind of thing,

where there's going to be extra money coming in.

Charlie 1:16:10

Absolutely. And also, I mean, he isn't, he is a captain still right here. He is still doing stuff or has

he stopped by that point?

Izzy 1:16:20

I’m not sure. He's definitely maintained like the ties of cats, but I think he's like ready to settle

down. I don't know if he's going to go back for that. I'm not entirely sure. It's not that old.

Charlie 1:16:29

It's not like super, super old, but then, I mean, again, think of a risk factor ships back then, you

know, if he dies, which is probably much more likely than someone like Darcy suddenly Keeling

over out of nowhere, like, what are we, what are we doing here? I mean, she would probably

get a, a payment of it, but as you say, there's no money coming in. So then what situation are

we in.

Izzy 1:16:55

With her family and her file for instance, Ooh, oh my God, no.

Charlie 1:17:01

Drown herself.

Izzy 1:17:03

No, that, it just sounds like an awful situation. Absolutely. I would not be there for that. I think

Mr. Knightley sounds great if you're Emma, because like both of you, you know, you're going to

be absolutely comfortable, happy, you in your little town, it's all working out. So I'm always a

bit of a nightly fun that's to be that like, to be sure. Well, I think if you're coming from like a

Bennett sister situation and Jane Fairfax kind of situation in a Darcy is what you need or a

Bengali.

Charlie 1:17:33

So what we really need is just someone rich and handsome to turn up and sort it all out. So

this has been, it was completely right there. Isn't a lot of excitement to be hard survey.

Izzy 1:17:46

True. That's hilarious. Ah, this has been such a fun episode though. I really enjoyed it. It was

good to just kind of look more like the financial side of things and how it breaks down. Yeah,.

Charlie 1:17:57

Absolutely. I'll have such good time. And it's really made me think about a wider level about

certain characters who I don't really consider as much and how interestingly they do for end to

be as novel than their narratives. Just from a financial perspective. It really, yeah. Jane Austen

was a genius. Think about it, but society, she creates a so intricate and yet fit together. So well,

fascinating.

Izzy 1:18:22

So interesting. But thanks so much for coming on. It's honestly been a blast. So I'm do you

want to let people make where they can find you what you were up to you? That kind of thing?

Charlie 1:18:31

Well, don't stalk me. No, no. You can find me on Instagram @thebookboy. And that's about it.

Really. I don't really do all the social media because I'm lazy.

Izzy 1:18:42

Stories are really funny. I love following your stories. That's.

Charlie 1:18:46

Just me just being mental. So apologies in advance. If anyone thinks I'm crazy. I, um, ah,.

Izzy 1:18:54

Oh, don't worry about to honestly, if anyone Follies me, they wouldn't be shocked by any of the

more mental than me, honestly. It's crazy. I have like a whole story. That's what is this? And it's

just me with like a weird face doing, you know, basically meme and myself. So.

Charlie 1:19:09

We like it.

Izzy 1:19:11

Is so great. So you're thanks everyone for listening. And we will see you in the next episode.