Ready for a magical journey into the world of literature? We've got a spellbinding discussion lined up for you! Together with our guest Caily, we're revisiting the imaginative crossover of Jane Austen and Harry Potter. We dive headfirst into the complexities of these beloved characters and unravel their fit within the four quintessential Hogwarts houses. We promise you, by the end of this power-packed episode, you'll have a newfound appreciation for both Austen's characters and Rowling's magical universe.
We will be picking both a primary and secondary house for each as we did for there heroines. So, spark up your wands (or earbuds) and join us for an unforgettable literary journey.
Where can you find your host (Izzy)? Website: www.whattheausten.com Podcast Instagram: @whattheausten Personal Instagram: @izzy_meakin Youtube: What the Austen? Podcast
izzy:0:20
Hi, janeites, and welcome back to the what the Austin podcast. Today we will be taking up our role again of the sorting cat. So last year we sorted Jane Austen Heroines into their Hogwarts houses. So me and Kaylee thought we'd come back and sort the heroes into their houses. So I really loved doing this last time. I always love a crossover episode and it's great to bring in, you know, multiple fictional loves to the podcast. Yeah, kaylee, welcome back to the pod.
Caily :0:48
Thanks so much for having me back. I love sorting characters into Harry Potter houses because I think it really helps capture important personality traits and nuances of the characters and it really can help you identify what they truly value. So I love doing the episode with you on sorting the heroines into different houses, and it was so fun coming up with their primary house and then secondary house to honor the nuances of the characters, and so it's only fitting to also sort their love interests into primary and secondary houses and then hopefully we can see some compatibility between the two.
izzy:1:34
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I know you don't do all of the character studies on me because I obviously have the gaffes on, but the more character studies I do, if I cover, like some of the heroes or even, like you know, heroines anything the more, the more I get kind of like these details about their personalities that I'm like, oh my goodness. I think it's made it hard at this time actually, because I've done so many character studies since the last Harry Potter episode when I was trying to sort people. This time I was like, but what about this aspect of that personality? What about this characteristically? Where does this fit? And honestly, it was so much harder this time I feel like the more you know, the harder it is.
Caily :2:15
I completely agree, and for certain characters, right away I had a primary house for them, but agreeing on this secondary house was difficult. I kept going back and forth and then I don't know if you had this experience too, but particularly one of the heroes I kept switching houses and it took so long to decide on one. So I am so curious to see how much we're in agreement and how much we differ on that particular character.
izzy:2:46
Yeah, actually we have a lot of them. I was going backwards and forwards, I put the houses down as subtitles and then I'd noticed myself basically talking about entirely different house. When I started to add description and example. I was like I'm not even on about the same house anymore. So then I'd have to go back and change it.
Caily :3:07
What's your name. I'm so glad you said that At one point. I put all of my notes down and I went through each hero and I just started writing down descriptive adjectives for each hero, because trying to write away, sort them into one of the four houses was just too difficult.
izzy:3:28
It's so hard and because of this, I know that we're going to have so much to talk about. So, like the previous series that we did, what I'm going to do is split this into two episodes. So we're going to cover three novels today and three novels later in the month. So, yeah, I'm really excited to get into this today. It's going to be so much fun. And just a reminder to everybody, I'm now uploading, obviously, the video content to YouTube so you can also check us out over there. And, yeah, if you prefer the visuals, then go ahead. I know I was like watching and listening to podcasts. So, yeah, absolutely so. Shall we talk a little bit about the houses? Just give us like a good foundations to go from. I know we did this last time, but I think it's really helpful just so that we can kind of set the scene If there are, like characteristics of the houses, some notable characters from Harry Potter, that kind of thing.
Caily :4:19
I think that's a great idea, just to have a refresher of the strengths and also weaknesses associated with each house.
izzy:4:27
Yeah, yeah, I think so. So shall we kick things off with Ravenclaw then? So what the Sorting Hat says about Ravenclaw, or yet in Wise Old Ravenclaw, if you've already mind, where those of Witten Learning will always find their kind. So yeah, I mean, I'm partial to this house, obviously as a Ravenclaw, but I'll pass over to Kaylee to talk a bit about the. You know the strengths and the weaknesses.
Caily :4:54
Absolutely so. I always thought it was helpful to look at each house by a core value and an external trait, and then actually one of the four elements. So again Ravenclaw's their external trait is intelligence, their core value is knowledge, their element is air and again, they're extremely individualistic. They are intelligent and this can be in many areas. To be an intelligent Ravenclaw you don't necessarily have to be book smart. They have a strong sense of individuality. You pointed out last time they have an excellent memory. So Ollivander obviously has remembered everyone he's ever made, and Gilderoy Lockhart was really adept at memory charms, and so Wisdom is the all-encompassing trait of Ravenclaw. Ravenclaws also have weaknesses, and one of the weaknesses is sort of an aloof detachment from reality sometimes, because Ravenclaws get very in their heads and they have a little bit of a tunnel vision when focusing on their passions. Anything you want to add to Ravenclaw.
izzy:6:15
Yeah, I think like another weakness of Ravenclaws is they can often be like super competitive with other Ravenclaws, like within their houses, within their house. So you kind of see that when it comes to academic success, I feel like I saw something once that said that they often like backstab each other because they want to get the top marks, and I thought that was really interesting that they're not really like the team players that we see kind of with Gryffindor or also Slytherin, where they really stick together. So I thought that was kind of interesting that they really do lean on this kind of independence and individuality. And yeah, I just thought that was good to pick up as well.
Caily :7:00
That's a really good point about Gryffindor and Slytherin really being loyal to the pack and team players, whereas, you're right, ravenclaws are very focused on personal identity development, more that individualism that you just talked about. And I think about that with Luna Lovegood. Think of her sense of fashion that's kind of pooky and out there, and think about the fact that she's labeled as spacey in a lot of ways, but then she also possesses so much wisdom when it comes to a lot of the larger issues and intuitive aspects that a lot of other people don't understand, like Harry not understanding why he could see the festivals. Luna's the one who explains that the two of them have experienced death, so that's why they're both able to see them when others can't.
izzy:7:57
You know what's so funny. You know that she's got this quirky fashion sense. Do you know, when she loses her shoes, the converse of strawberries on and they're hanging from the ceiling. Do you remember that scene in the films? I had those exact converse when I was growing up. I honestly couldn't believe it. When I saw them in the film I was like, oh my gosh, I had those shoes.
Caily :8:21
I love that, and you identify somewhat with Luna too. Right, like you said, she's your favorite character.
izzy:8:27
Oh yeah, absolutely yeah. I think not just because like she's a Ravenclaw and I'm a Ravenclaw, but I just love that she's very true to herself and yeah, I know that she is like a little bit like strange at times, but I think she's like such a valuable asset. We see that when we've like Dumbledore's army and everything, she makes such a big difference, even like the first kind of task that they have. When they've got to try and get to Sirius in London and everyone's like how are we getting to London? And she's like well, fly, of course. I just love that. She's just kind of like there and she comes with the ideas. And also when Harry's like running around Hogwarts trying to figure out how he's going to get the, the diadem, and she's like like, what are you doing? Like a waste in time, like you need to go and speak to someone who's dad I just love. I just kind of love that she's like always there with like the, you know the quick solutions that they need.
Caily :9:26
It's so true, in the crisis situations she stays so calm and grounded and I think that's another aspect of Ravenclaw is there's calm certainty in knowing who they are. Other people can't sway their sense of self.
izzy:9:44
Yes, I love that and I think that kind of leads on as well to. I know you mentioned Lockhart with his like ability with memory charms and everything, but he was also, you know, extremely famous. Like everybody loved his work. He was a very successful author, he was super popular, and I think that's another characteristic of Ravenclaw is that they can kind of draw these people to them and create a bit of a following. Really, I think, because they often have this kind of unique way of looking at life or they're the inventors or the ideas, like the people coming with the big ideas, that kind of thing.
Caily :10:21
That's so true about the charm. You know Molly Weasley had a huge crush on Gilda Ray Lockhart. He did have that following. He had that charisma, and that reminds me of Cho Cheng too. She was very charming, popular. Everyone had a crush on her. So, yeah, that's a really good point.
izzy:10:40
I love it. Which, how shall we move on to next? Let's do. How about Hufflepuff? Okay, hufflepuff. So what does the sorting cat say about Hufflepuff? You might belong to Hufflepuff, where they are just unloyal. Those patient Hufflepuffs are true and unafraid of toil.
Caily :11:01
All right, yeah, hufflepuff. The external trait is their work ethic and their core value is fairness. Element is earth and flaw is an indecisiveness and a bit of a naivety where other people can sway them, hufflepuffs I think sometimes they get a little bit of a bad reputation. People sometimes overlook Hufflepuffs, but they're actually known as the voice of reason. They can stay very emotionally regulated, they're very patient, they're loyal to their friends, a strong sense of prudence and a high moral compass. We said before that Hufflepuffs would value a meritocracy. So you work for what you get and I think it's important to point out to how Hufflepuff is accepting of all people. So Hufflepuffs are very non-judgmental and will take everyone in and believe that everyone should be treated in a similar way. They believe in the value of humanity.
izzy:12:19
Yes, I love that. I also think as well that sometimes Hufflepuffs can get a bad rep where people try and make out like they're stupid or they're not very intelligent. But I think that's totally far from the truth, because if you think of people like Newt from Fantastic Beasts, he's like an expert on magical creatures. Or you think about Tonks, she's a Hufflepuff and she's like an aura and she's like really skilled. And I mean to be an aura, you have to get pretty good grades, so she's probably pretty smart. And Cedric Diggory he's really intelligent and he goes all the way with the Triwizard Cup and everything. Is it called Triwizard? What's it called? Yeah, triwizard tournaments, something like the Triwizard something. Yeah, he goes all the way with the Triwizard tournaments and everything. So, yeah, I think they get a bad rep for that, but I think they definitely have that intelligence as well. I think it's more that they are often swayed by other people, which can sometimes make them come across as, like you said, like a bit naive or that they maybe aren't the smartest, but I think it's more that they're kind of looking for acceptance and so sometimes, you know, following the crowd is where they find that.
Caily :13:37
I agree with you. I think the fact that they can be easily swayed makes them appear not very strong to certain people. But you do have characters like Cedric and Tonks who have this open energy that is so kind and sweet, right Like, I think, of any of the houses. Upon meeting them, you'd be most trusting of Hufflepuffs. There's just an acceptance about them that I think is very grounding.
izzy:14:10
Yes, I love that. That's so good. Which house do you want to move on to next? Okay, okay, thanks for watching. I'll see you next time. Let's do Slytherin. Okay, I love this. We're going against the grain. You know, gryffindor will be the final house that we talk about, which is interesting, because I want to talk a little bit about the bias towards Gryffindor. So that will be good. But first let's talk about Slytherin. So what does the sorting hat say about Slytherin? Or perhaps in civ? Or perhaps Sivillin that's too funny, oh dear or perhaps in Slytherin you'll make your real friends. Those cunning folk use any means to achieve their ends. So yeah, let's talk about Slytherin.
Caily :14:59
So when I think about the core value for Slytherin, the core value is ambition and then the external trait is success. There are so many powerful, successful Slytherins. In Harry Potter. The element is water, which I think makes sense. They're mutable, they read social situations and they adapt. They're very resourceful and a flaw is obviously they can be malicious. Some Slytherins are power hungry and you know they have a sense of cunning which is excellent. In a lot of ways they can use their existing skills to their advantage. You want a Slytherin on your team if you're in a crisis, because a Slytherin will be very practical in knowing how to adapt. Sometimes Slytherins the way they're ambitious is they can focus a little bit too much on lineage, ancestry, status, but Slytherins are fiercely loyal and protective of their own. So once a Slytherin cares about you and values you and you're important to them, they will defend you and they will stay true to you. So I think that's why the sorting hat says you'll make your real friends there. A Slytherin is in it with you.
izzy:16:27
Yeah, I love that. That was so good. Just something else that I'd probably add on that as well is I think you kind of mentioned this they have this real practical intelligence which I was just thinking about this time. If you look at people like Snape, if you look at Slughorn, or even Draco Malfoy, all of them are really good at potions and I thought isn't that such a practical skill to have, just like loads of different things? Look at Snape, with his I can't remember what it's called where he is able to enter Harry's mind and try and help him to protect himself against people like Invading Obviously it's Voldemort Invading his mind, what's that called?
Caily :17:04
again, Legilimency and Occul.
izzy:17:09
Occulamency or something like that. Occulamency, yeah, no, absolutely yeah. I think there's just certain skill sets that they have that I'm just like they're actually really practical skills. It's magic that you can use on the everyday. I think sometimes with Ravenclaws they can get caught up on things that maybe aren't as useful. It's just something that they're passionate about, whereas I think Slitheren's take a really practical approach to magic.
Caily :17:38
Which makes so much sense. I agree with you. I think Ravenclaws can be a little bit in the clouds in their own heads and they have these brilliant ideas, but Slitheren's are so good with the practical application, like you said, because I think Slitheren's are so observant of everything, they're so shrewd, they're so savvy, like a Slitheren teacher is going to be the one who's observing all of the dynamics in class and you're not going to be able to get away with anything. They see everything.
izzy:18:09
Yeah, something I love about Slitheren's as well is they have this kind of air of mystery and they often have more layers than you expect, Obviously. I mean we all know that from Snape's story, but I think you also do see that from Slitheren as well. Like he has his surface level person, but then he obviously also has all that past with, like Tom Riddle, where he's kind of opened up and he's become really close to these students and everything. So I feel like there's layers there as well. And yeah, I was just thinking that's really fascinating with Slitheren's. They're not like totally extroverted about everything, like their whole personalities. They do keep their kind of cards close to the chest and sometimes that's really valuable. I mean, look how that works out for Snape.
Caily :18:49
That is so true, you have to peel back the layers of the onion. I think Slitheren's are private and secretive on some level and I'm so glad that Slughorn was added to the Harry Potter series because we get to meet a very fun, kind person who's a Slitheren, and I think earlier in the novels we saw a lot of power hungry Slitheren's and there are a lot of great Slitheren's out there. A lot of the people I love and know who I'm closest to would definitely fall into Slitheren house.
izzy:19:29
Yeah, yeah, I think. So I'd say my secondary house is probably Slitheren. I think I read this I don't know if it was an article or maybe I read it post but someone was saying how most Harry Potter quizzes are kind of biased against Slitheren. So some of the questions that they ask which kind of link towards becoming a Slitheren, even if you would say yes to them, you wouldn't say yes to them because the way that the questions are worded seems so negative that you wouldn't reach out. And so there's like so few people who get sorted into Slitheren because just the way that the quizzes are worded and things like that was so fascinating to know. And I mean, like you said, the books have a certain bias, so they're biased towards Gryffindor because that's why the three protagonists lie. But yeah, I mean, on that note, we should talk about Gryffindor.
Caily :20:21
Yeah, I just want to say I completely agree with you. I think the quizzes could make any of the houses look bad, Like you could say oh, are you naive or do you know what's going on around you if you want to slate Hufflepuff. But you're right that most of the quizzes are pretty harsh on Slitheren, so I'm glad you named that.
izzy:20:39
Yeah, absolutely so. Moving on to Gryffindor then, what does the sorting cat say you might belong to Gryffindor where dwell the brave at heart. Their daring nerve and chivalry sets Gryffindors apart.
Caily :20:53
Yeah, so Gryffindor's. Their external trait is they're known for their bravery, and then core value is justice. Flaws are they don't have very high levels of impulse control. They they'll be very reckless sometimes and sometimes a bit arrogant. To element is fire. They are known as the defenders of honor. They're the Knights, they're the protectors. They'll challenge authority in favor of justice, right. So sometimes they act before thinking, but intentions are always honorable. They think of the animal symbol, of the lion. They're very courageous and have a lot of energetic leadership presence. And again, they're their social justice warriors. They defend the underdog.
izzy:21:56
Yeah, I love. That Always makes me think of like Hermione with with the house cells, like where she starts like that petition to try and like free all the house cells, and obviously we see that with Harry setting Dobby free as well. And I always think as well I Gryffindors, I think about Gryffindors. I always think of like a burning passion. Does that make sense? Like just like dark colors and just like I think it's because of that fire element. It's like you know that they can be explosive, for that can be positive and negative at times. Like it's just like that balance is in it between kind of holding back the flame a little bit.
Caily :22:38
Exactly, yeah, with their element being fire. Fire is a warm, a bright thing, but it's also extremely intense and it can burn right. And so if you think of the large characters in Gryffindor we have I think of I'm glad you brought up Hermione because I always think of Hermione and McGonagall and apparently the sorting hat took almost the longest of any student to sort McGonagall and also took a really long time on Hermione because it was very close between Ravenclaw and Gryffindor. But end of the day, just like you said, hermione's commitment to social justice with spew, with the house elves organization, and also that quotation at the end of the Sorcerer's Stone where Harry talks about how smart Hermione is and she goes. There are more important things like friendship and bravery, and it's so important to remember about the houses that it's not only the characteristics that they possess, but it's also the characteristics that each character values the most right. And Hermione values bravery, she values fighting for what's right, and think about how fiery McGonagall is too in the name of justice and all that.
izzy:24:00
So yeah, yes, I love that. That's such a good point. Yeah, I feel like it's the bravery that sometimes that kind of overrules I was just thinking what's just come to me as well, I guess another one that kind of toes on the line of two houses is never long bottom, like, if you think about it, like really, he would really fit into Hufflepuff, like with his ability with like plants and herbology and everything like that's a very much like a Hufflepuff subject. But yeah, he's because he's so brave and daring and loyal to his friends and challenges his friends. I think, like Dumbledore makes a point that he's able to like challenge his friends and that's really tough to do. But I feel like Gryffindor is quite good at that. Yeah, it's just interesting.
Caily :24:50
Yeah, we everyone kind of wonders why he's in Gryffindor in the early days, because he's so kind of clumsy, unsure of himself. He's not a very likely hero, right. But even we see glimmers of his Gryffindor nature, even at the end of book one when, just like you said, he tries to stop Harry, ron and Hermione from getting out. He stands up to them and and then, oh my gosh, his character development by the end of the series and how he's leading the charge and kills the snake. And yeah, it's so interesting to see him come into his Gryffindor status by the end.
izzy:25:28
Yes, I love that. So in today's episode we're going to be covering Pride and Prejudice, mansfield Park and Emma. So, yeah, that's the three novels for today. So, first up, which Hogwarts house would Mr Darcy be in? And we're going to pick a primary in a secondary house for him. So do you want me to kick things off with my thoughts? Do you want to go first?
Caily :25:51
I would love you to kick it off, because I think we're starting off with the doozy. Mr Darcy was the hardest for me to sort. I don't know about you, so I am excited to see what you have to say.
izzy:26:03
So just before we move on to the next topic, then I just want to say a little bit about our sponsor, house of Bennett. If, like me, you love taking a break from your modern life to escape into Jane Austen's world of handwritten letters, romantic Ronde views and long walks in the countryside, you will love the House of Bennett shop. House of Bennett offers stickers, pins, jewelry, totes, shirts and so much more All themes around your favorite classic literature and period dramas, including Jane Eyre, anne of Green Gables, little Women and, of course, the works of Jane Austen. Head over to HouseofBennettcom. That's H-A-U-S-O-F-B-E-N-N-E-T dot C-O-M, and use my code WhatTheDiscount for 15% off at the checkout. So, once again, that's HouseofBennettcom and use my code WhatTheDiscount for 15% off. Okay, so I actually found his primary house not so difficult, but I really struggled with his secondary house. So, yeah, I'm going to be so interested to talk this through. So I don't know if you're going to be surprised. I'm kind of scared to say to you Okay, so the primary house that I picked for Mr Darcy was Slytherin and the secondary house was Gryffindor. Do we have the same? Is it different?
Caily :27:13
Well, our primary is the same, which I love. I was nervous as well and I think some listeners might be mad at us, because you know listeners who don't like Slytherins might think what? Mr Darcy's our favorite. How can you call him a Slytherin? But I completely agree with you on Slytherin being the primary house. We differed on our secondary house actually.
izzy:27:43
Okay, I'll tell you my reasoning for my primary and secondary that I'm so excited to hear what your secondary is. So a little bit about kind of Mr Darcy characteristics. First, he's known to be mysterious, unapproachable at times, quiet, loyal to those that he loves, and gallant. You know he really steps out to make things better for Elizabeth, which is a bit of a crisis. So the reasoning behind putting Slytherin as his primary house is he really reminds me of Snape. You know this kind of aloof Is that what you were going to say? He's kind of like this aloof, misunderstood character, but also someone who's like, willing to make big sacrifices and go to great lengths to someone that they love. Obviously we see that was Snape and Lily Potter. He pays for Wickham's commission when he runs off with Lydia because obviously otherwise that kind of ruins the Bennett family and that's a great risk to his own reputation and to Sister Secret. You know this is he really puts himself out on the line and doing that I don't think a lot of people realize that sometimes and he's overlooked by a character that's maybe initially considered more endearing or kind of the more exciting person. And we see that was Snape and James Potter. Like James Potter. Everybody loves James Potter, but then when we look into the past we realize that you know, james was actually bully and Snape and obviously when we get to all these letters we find out the past with him and Mr Wickham was that Wickham was like this rake all along and he was a fortune hunter. So I think it's interesting that they're kind of people that are a bit misunderstood and so, because Snape was a slither and that was kind of my initial thoughts on it, obviously Slytherin's often done reserved and so is Mr Darcy, that era of mystery that we were talking about. I think reputation and status is really important to Mr Darcy. At the start, like, if you think about his initial proposal to Elizabeth, it is like so bad. He makes like a point of saying that he has a sense of inferiority about her because she's you know, he considers her of like lower standing and like shuns her family and all sorts, which obviously is kind of a weakness of Slytherin's. It makes me think as well to the 2005 version. You know, when she rejects him he's like are you laughing at me? Are you rejecting me? And it makes me think about Draco so much. I feel like that would be his response to someone if they said something, and he makes the point to say to Lizzie that my parents taught me to do the right thing but they never taught me to be humble. And I think this sense of legacy is something that we see a lot through Harry Potter with Slytherins, you know. We see it with the Draco family, we see it with the House of Black. Even though obviously Sirius falls into Gryffindor, the rest of the family were all Slytherins, yeah, and I think my last point on it would be that Slytherins kind of sometimes look down on Gryffindors for being like these kind of over risk takers or just like really blunt and out there in. I think that he kind of looks down on Lizzie a little bit and I know obviously in a previous episode we talked about how Lizzie has these Gryffindor traits as well. So I thought he kind of looks down on Lizzie a little bit for being like that and the rest of her family and I think there is other family members who would fall into Gryffindor. I mean I know I argued in the past that Mrs Bennet would and I feel like Mr Dotsy really looks down on Mrs Bennet for being kind of overt about her feelings and like you know, just her thoughts and everything. So yeah, your thoughts.
Caily :31:34
I'm just having a moment right now. I'm so happy. So many of the points you said are exactly what I was going to say. I think what I thought about is when we talked about earlier how Slytherins are a little bit more secretive and have a level of privacy where you don't fully get to know them until you peel back layers of the onion. So you know, when we first meet Mr Darcy he makes a horrible impression. Right, he's labeled as arrogant, as prideful, as holier than thou, thinking he's better than other people. And when I think of those traits I do think of maladaptive Slytherin traits. Right, slytherins are very prideful about status, or can be, and there can be an arrogance and, you're right, he does care a lot about the family name, his lineage. That's a Slytherin trait. He's ambitious to make sure that he marries someone that will bring his family honor that his family will approve of, and he does look down on the Bennett family and I think of this is interesting the minimal overlap that I see between Hufflepuff and Slytherin is I see Hufflepuff and Slytherin as both having characters that have a high level of emotional regulation, just like you said, and Gryffindors have low impulse control. So I do see a lot of Slytherins looking down on Gryffindors, just like Mr. Actually, I argued Mrs Bennett was a Slytherin. But if we take Mrs Bennett's Gryffindor traits, where she can't really control herself, mr Darcy looks down on that. He doesn't like that sense of impropriety and I think that makes sense with his personality. Mr Darcy's really shrewd, he's savvy, he sizes people up, he is extremely resourceful. Think about the fact that he finds a way to track down Wickham and then when Lizzie thanks him, he admits it wasn't because I had empathy for your family, it was for you alone. He's horrible to Elizabeth, but then, once he commits to her, he does not give up. And that's what reminds me of Snape too. Snape is similarly very shrewd, smart, private. Snape is so dedicated to Lily, right the always the fact that his patronus embodies her forever. Think about Mr Darcy. And even though Elizabeth rejects him and even though he thinks he's not gonna get another chance with her, he never gives up and keeps pursuing her. So there's this level of commitment to her and Slytherin's look after their own, just like we said.
izzy:34:39
I love that. No, I love all of the points that you've literally just made there. And I was also thinking about you know what the sorting set is about? Any means to achieve their ends, that they're willing to go to any lengths. I was thinking about that with the interference with Jane and Bingley, because he really cares about Mr Bingley as a friend but really does go to great lengths to separate them. He betrays Bingley's trust in doing that. Obviously Bingley doesn't find out till later but he takes him away without kind of talking to him about the situation first. He just assumes I know best and I don't know about you. But I kind of see Bingley as a bit of a hufflepuff and just kind of being led on by Darcy. He's kind of got this stronger personality.
Caily :35:23
Yes, I'm so glad you brought that up. I was thinking about that too. Mr Darcy, just like you said, means to an end. He will do anything to get Bingley away from Jane. He knows Jane's in town and he's very deceitful about hiding the fact that Jane's there from Bingley. And how he manipulates Bingley too and convinces Bingley that Jane never cared for him. That seems slithering to me.
izzy:35:53
Yes, yeah, I think so. Do you wanna hear my thoughts on my secondary house of Gryffindor?
Caily :36:00
Yes, I wanna hear this. I'm so curious.
izzy:36:05
Okay so. So I did mostly think he was slithering, but then I also thought, you know, he does have some Gryffindor traits. You see him as that kind of that protector of the underdog at times. Something that stands out to me as the way that his housekeeper talks about him, like she says I've never had a crossword from him in my life. He's a really kind employer, like she really sings his praises and also kind of just a little bit later on from that, mrs Gardner kind of gives her 10 cents about Mr Darcy and she says he has not an ill-natured look. On the contrary, there was something pleasing about his mouth when he speaks. And you know, I've seen Mrs Gardner as someone who's really intuitive, like she's. She really sizes people up in her initial thoughts on Mr Darcy as this. So that makes me think, you know, that he's kind of maybe got this kind of soft side that's maybe a little bit more compassionate than sometimes we see from Slytherin's and the fact that he's so caring towards his sister, ms Darcy. You know he's really. You know, therefore, constantly and I mean again, that is a slithering trait as well you know loyalty to family and everything. So it's difficult, honestly, this is the one that I really struggled with Like wasn't a hundred percent on this secondary health. But he is impulsive and that is very much a Gryffindor trait, you know. He kind of springs the first proposal on Lizzie. It's like really awkward because he keeps appearing. And then he's like I'm just gonna propose to you now. And obviously when she rejects him he sends that letter straight away, like he doesn't ponder on it. He's like right, I'm writing a letter to clarify everything that's gone on with Mr Wickham and why I made the decisions that I made. You know he doesn't sit and be reflective on it, like I think a Ravenclaw word, he's just like send it out. When Lydia goes missing, he's like on the road to London like he's gonna find her. You know he's straight to finding solutions.
Caily :37:55
Oh my gosh, this is so interesting. Okay, so I had the same. I had the same issues, kind of going back and forth between the secondary houses, but I think. Okay, so I think you're gonna be shocked by what I say it, but I put his secondary house as Hufflepuff.
izzy:38:15
You know what? I'm not shocked because I had Hufflepuff at one point.
Caily :38:20
I think where we disagree is our interpretation of whether or not he's impulsive. Part of the reason I didn't put him in Gryffindor is because I actually see him as a lot more measured a lot of the time than other heroes. Like I don't wanna give it away before it's time, but there's one hero that I think is a tried and true Gryffindor and I think about if he were in the position where he found out that Wickham was about to elope with his sister. I see this hero punching Wickham like totally losing all control, being very impulsive and I think Mr Darcy was actually pretty, pretty measured about it, like he initially gave Wickham a chance. He, you know, I know that his initial proposal seems bumbling and out of the blue, but he comes and visits the house another time and is sitting there trying to pluck up the courage and can't really communicate with Elizabeth. And yeah, I actually I just saw him as more reserved and measured and even the way that he goes about courting Elizabeth again, befriending the gardeners, I actually see that as having a lot of patience. I think the fact that he's a loyal friend. He, you know, even though he manipulated Bingley and what he did with Jane wasn't cool, he cares about Bingley's best interest and he's very loyal to him. I think the way he treats his sister he's so loyal. I think I was also thinking about what the housekeeper said and I thought that sounded very hufflepuff, like I've never heard a cross word from him in my life. He is talking about how humble he is and fair to the servants. Like that feels hufflepuff to me and he has this sense of well, duty could be griffin. He has a sense of duty and doing what's right, which could be either griffin or hufflepuff. Anyway, it's so hard, it's so hard. But yeah, I just yeah. That's where I ended up. No, no.
izzy:40:37
And honestly, I was like back and forth with my hufflepuff, my hufflepuff thoughts for him, honestly, it was really difficult because I feel like a lot of things that I said for Gryffindor, like he said, could be considered hufflepuff traits as well. And I think you actually would be close to convincing me of hufflepuff, because something that I just thought about there is hufflepuffs, one of the houses that kind of try to avoid conflict and I feel like even though Mr Darcy does, he is shocked by Elizabeth's rejection. I think that's probably more of his slither inside. He doesn't like argue, the toss with it. He's not like like sometimes when you see some of the other heroines in here, it's like Miss and Ily and Emma, where they're like backwards and forwards in confrontation. Well, kind of confrontation is kind of like of wisdom, but they kind of feel back and forth of confrontation. I feel like you don't see that with Darcy he's kind of like backs off and he's like. You know, I fully understand what you're saying. I'm going to go now. So I think that's more hufflepuff, like he takes himself away from the confrontation and, like you said, he's never gone up to wicking and being like. You know what are you doing in Highbury. Why are you messing around with this person? Or you know he doesn't expose him and I feel like that's a very hufflepuff trait. He's trying to avoid the conflict.
Caily :41:50
Yes, yes exactly he I you captured it so well and I was trying to put that feeling into words. I think he comes in with such slither and traits but then once Elizabeth calls him out, he actually takes what she says into account and changes. And I think about too how he talks about all of these notions of breeding and how people are inferior to him. But think about how good he is with his words, with actually judging character, like he ends up loving the gardeners. They're his favorite people because he sees the good quality in them. He recognizes that Charlotte is way out of Mr Collins's league. He, I think people who are fair and just and kind. He recognizes those qualities in people. He, even even when he's still being uppity, he recognizes the Lizzie and Jane are set apart from their family in the way that they are really well-behaved. And yeah, I don't know.
izzy:43:03
So I love that. It's like maybe it's like an expectation for him to behave such as not actually his real personality to do so, yeah, yeah.
Caily :43:12
But isn't it odd? Isn't it odd, to have someone have a slither and hufflepuff combination? It doesn't feel like those two would go together.
izzy:43:22
I know, I know, but I feel like at the same time you do see him backtracking a lot Like his demeanor when Lizzie and the gardeners are at Pembley is so different than you see him anywhere else. And maybe he's just more slither in when he's out in society, Like maybe that's his way of dealing with social situations. But when he's at home and he's in his own space he can be more hufflepuff.
Caily :43:51
Yeah, and it's so interesting because I did land on hufflepuff, but I just Devils advocate. Where I got really hung up is hufflepuffs are known for being really friendly and people pleasing, and Darcy is the opposite of a people pleaser, right. So it's not a perfect fit, and part of me, too wanted to acknowledge his intelligence too, which was sort of raving. He's just all over the map for me, right.
izzy:44:26
So I think his intelligence is like a practical intelligence, which again I think is a slither and thing, like you know. I mean the way that he's able to manage the estate and has done from a young age, he's kind of very logical the way he thinks things through. He's like you know how am I going to sort the Wiccan sitrars? Initially he's like right, I'll pay him off, done, sorted, not an issue. And you know what? I think you've really convinced me of the hufflepuff side because I'm thinking he's not that hotheaded and that's such a strong characteristic of Gryffindor, even to the extent that there's some darker size of Gryffindor if you think about her mining, kidnapping Rita Skeeter, or I feel like there are some other examples that I'm always like that's so dark. You know what I mean and I don't see Mr Nutt and I don't see Mr Darcy like Fine into those characteristics.
Caily :45:23
Exactly like mr Darcy wouldn't have dueled wickum, whereas I can see other Gryffindors doing that, or Fred and George throwing the Slytherin player into the vanishing cabinets and not caring about it, like, yeah, just that, that acting before thinking type situation.
izzy:45:42
Yeah, yeah, I think he convinced me. I think we should go Slytherin, hufflepuff, okay. So which Hogwarts house would Edmund Bertram be in? We can pick a primary and a secondary house. So, edmund Bertram, I'll pass over to you to intro him.
Caily :46:00
All right. So Edmund Bertram is One of the few people who makes Fanny feel welcome. Right when she moves in with the Bertram family Fanny faces a lot of prejudice. She's kind of treated like a second-class citizen. And Edmund is just introed as being super kind to her, curious about her life and who she is, he really. He protects her, he takes her under his wing. He is known for his, his moral compass. He wants to what's it called? He wants to be a clergyman. Is that what I would say, pastor? Okay, he wants to be a clergyman. He's very, very focused on people doing what's right and fair, doing the moral thing, having a strong conscience, and he really admires that. Fanny always does what what's right. I think of the scene with the. I think of the part with the play where Fanny Begs them all to not do the play and originally he agrees with her but swayed by Mary and by other people to do this play that he knows that his father wouldn't approve of. And you know, when the father comes back and is horrified that everyone's done this play, that's, for the time, considered a moral. Edmund really admires Fanny and says Fanny was always steadfast in her beliefs. Fanny is the one who always did what was right and stood up for what was right. So he, he really cares about people doing the honest good kind thing. That being said, he's swayed by Mary Crawford. Right, he's enamored with her and he recognizes that she Spits out these kind of socially inappropriate Comments. She talks about her uncle in a negative way in public. He doesn't like that. He names that. He doesn't like that to Fanny. But then he proceeds to ignore it and says how in love with Mary he is, so he's kind of captivated by her but eventually comes back to his love Fanny, because Fanny represents to him all that is good and moral and just and stable. I Think the such a.
izzy:48:29
This is such a nice description of Edmund. I feel like I just find him like such a problematic hero, honestly, but I like you to be nice about it.
Caily :48:39
I'm trying to be nice about him, um, I Do. I do think he is. He can be kind of Descending at time. I'm so I'm so curious to hear why you don't like him because I do. I do that. See that side of it too. He can be he kind of For all of the times that he stands up for Fanny, against his aunt, making sure Fanny has a horse, making sure, advocating that Fanny can come along to all of these events. He also Neglects Fanny while he's mesmerized with Mary Crawford. So I Would say, do you want to hear what my primary is? Yeah, okay, I said for him, primary house is Hufflepuff and the reason for this is, I do think he has a kindness and he has Patience about him. He's very caring and nurturing of Fanny. Um, I think he also hasn't. He's naive like he. He talks about being astounded that Mariah and Mr Crawford and I'm sorry he's astounded that Mariah and Mr Crawford engaged in this affair and he honestly can't believe it. He there are all these quotes where he's just horrified and he all he also wants to think the best of Mary Crawford and he he kind of projects this fantasy of her onto her. That isn't really who she is. He idealizes her and then is so shocked when she falls from grace in his eyes. So I just think the fact that she has Mary has such a negative even though I kind of like Mary's funk, let's be real, mary and Pulls him away from his morality and his ideals. That feels like oh, a weakness of Hufflepuff because he's not as steadfast as Fanny. I really like this quote where he says um, I can not but think that for me, for my feelings, her faults of principle, fanny, of blunted delicacy and a corrupted, corrupted mind, perhaps it's best for me, since it leaves me so little to regret. Gladly I would submit to all the increased pain of losing her rather than have to think of her as I do. I Told her so, so like thinking badly of people makes him feel so upset. I also really liked when he and Mary Crawford talk about His ambitions to be a clergyman and she basically is telling him that's boring, why wouldn't you want to be in a city? And he goes, I should hope, of the proportion of virtue to vice throughout the kingdom. We do not look in great cities for our best morality, so he's just so morally focused and Committed to what's fair. Yeah, what do you think with primary house?
izzy:51:46
Yeah, I, my primary house was Hufflepuff as well in, even though he has kind of like this moral focus which I feel like is more like a Ravenclaw trait, he abandons his morals all the time, like constantly. He's just so easily led by Mary Crawford mostly, but, um, yeah, but I agree with all of the points that you made and you made some extra ones that I loved as well. But he is so kind to Fanny and he doesn't seem to care that she's like the quote-unquote poor relation that everybody else seems like obsessed with, and then the end he does marry her and you know it doesn't seem to bother him then either. He also I love what you said about like the fact that he wants to be a clergyman and Mary so like Against it and tries to convince him otherwise. I'm like she's always saying like don't men want to distinguish themselves in? And I think she also says like is there not another relation that could like give you a fortune? And For Edmund, like he's much more willing to work for his living, then have something kind of given to him as a birthright which I think shows him is kind of like a Hufflepuff over someone, like like a slithering, and so, yeah, I agree with all of that and, yeah, I think maybe one of the things that I Think in like a sad way is maybe the weakness of Hufflepuff. That really stood out to me first. For him was the fact that he is so easily Led by Mary Crawford and, like he said, with the play. I mean he is like he's like this play is terrible. It's a moral. You know, it's totally inappropriate for us to do this. And then as soon as he finds out there's like an intimate scene with Mary, he's like I'll do the play.
Caily :53:22
It's fine.
izzy:53:24
And Fanny's like what? Like how have you just like gone? Like you know, changed your mind entirely in Another example as well is he is kind of funny but like you said about the whole situation, like he says to Fanny like you need to ride every single day. Then if it comes to Mary Crawford wanting to ride, it's like forget you, fanny. You know We'll go out riding for ages and like I know he does try and pull it back, but I just find him so problematic as a hero, like I mean I personally think he would have it would have been better for Fanny, for her to have gone with Henry Crawford to be perfectly honest with you, because I actually think Edmund is Very similar to his family in the sense that he just kind of picks and drops Fanny when he wants to, and I think that she would have been better going with Henry Crawford and being taken away from the family entirely.
Caily :54:14
Yeah, I'm laughing because my best friend, lily, is gonna love hearing you talk about this, because she thinks Edmund is the worst. She really really does like his wishy-washy-ness and yeah, that's a fair point. He really, you know he's. He goes so above and beyond to be kind to Fanny that it almost feels harsher when it's suddenly taken away to people, please to Mary Crawford, and yeah, it's cruel. It's cruel in a sense and I know Fanny's not your favorite, but that is where I have compassion for her because he really she is so reliant upon him and he is so back and forth and indecisive.
izzy:54:58
And he's made her reliant on him as well, which I think is makes it all worse, because, you know, for her it becomes confusing because she's like how would he forget me? Why would he not be here, like sorting things for me in? Yeah, I think it is this, this kind of the fact that he can kind of drop things for for Mary Crawford, who's kind of the is Kind of gaining more attention from people. You know, she's like the more Interesting character really at the end of the day and, yeah, he's drawn to that. And I Think as well and I think we're like Hufflepuff's that I was saying before is they're kind of more driven towards like Love and being with other people and like that companionship. And you see that with with Edmund, the fact that he's like All about Mary and the next thing you know, like because Mary's not an option anymore, he's all about funny and I'm just like you know it's not like fickle nature, I'm a bit like I don't know.
Caily :55:58
Yeah, I Understand, I understand why he Would be off-putting, because he doesn't have this sense of self and the the strength about him and the steadfast Stoicism that a lot of the Austin heroes have, and so I feel that's weird. It's weird that I'm defending him more than I expect because I agree, it's cruel the way he's wishy-washy, but I also just see moments where he he is truly kind and it does feel authentic. I feel like he just gets led on on the wrong track. But I think about how he gave up his inheritance to Settle his brother's debts and how so many times, he shows how responsible he is, kind of picking up his older brother's slack and Showing that really he would be the better heir. He, he's hard-working, he takes care of the home while his father and brother are away. I think there is, I think there's a lot of good there and there's actually. Manfield Park is the only book that I didn't read before seeing an adaptation, and I saw I think it was the. Was it the 2007 adaptation of man Billy Piper? I think I. She's a brunette, fanny's a broom. Oh no, I think that's a different one. Yeah, I really liked that one actually, and I think they portray him in a more favorable light, and so I wonder if that portrayal of him has me be a little kinder to him. I don't know, he's like sweet.
izzy:57:35
I love it. Um, but you know my secondary house for him was Gryffindor. You know like I was. Yeah Was yours, Gryffindor, because I feel like you're gonna be shocked because I thought you wouldn't expect me to pick Gryffindor as a secondary house.
Caily :57:47
We were in agreement on both for this one, oh my gosh.
izzy:57:52
I love it.
Caily :57:54
We have such different opinions of him. Well, that's so funny yeah.
izzy:57:58
Yeah, I think he fits into Gryffindor as a secondary house really well. I mean, I think about the way that he Defends Fanny against Mrs Norris, like you know she's really awful and he is. It's kind of like what Hermione says. You know that's saving people thing and he very much has that. Like he jumps in there and he's almost harsh in the way that he speaks to her. You know he's he's gets real angry about it, especially when they have like Fanny outside all day and she's like picking roses and apparently that's a bit too much for Fanny, so and he just goes mental about it. Um, so he's got quite a short temper. You know, it makes me think. Do you remember like the Harry Umbridge situations I was like I really feel that dynamic between Edmund and Mrs Norris.
Caily :58:43
Oh Wait, that's brilliant. Oh my oh. Mrs Norris is so awful in the way that Umbridge is. Oh, that power struggle.
izzy:58:53
The only reason I like wouldn't think of him as like a Gryffindor is like I feel like he doesn't go far enough. You know, like I feel like there's an yes, there's clearly an issue with the way that Fanny's treated, but he tells me, says Norris off, but then doesn't do anything, like he doesn't remove her from the situation. You know, and I feel like characters like Darcy, for instance, would do that, like they would take the initiative to remove that person from the situation. They wouldn't just be like look, I'm gonna buy you a horse. Or like putting a plaster over the situation, like no, she's still in a terrible dynamic here, like I just don't get that he doesn't do more. And that's why I was a little bit like, oh, is he Gryffindor there? Because I feel like Gryffindor's really go that extra mile to make sure the underdog is Put into a better situation. And think about Dobby when you know, you know how he gives him the sock, you know, and that completely changes this life. He's not just like you know what, dobby, you can come around to my house every so often. That's cool. You know, we'll have a chit chat every now and again. You know he changes his, his situation in life that's.
Caily :59:54
That's a really good point with the follow-through because yeah the reason. I put. The two biggest reasons why I put him as Gryffindor for a secondary house is one the protect protector of the underdog. That's very Gryffindor and he really is that way with Fanny and with his brother when his brother's in Trouble, right, like that generous nature. But then, oh my gosh, he is all over the place, impulsivity wise, and you're right, he has such a short fuse. Even at the end of the novel. It's like All right, I'm totally in love with Mary Crawford, and then Mary is pretty awful and says some pretty awful things. But then there's a passage and you just see if I can find it when it basically says well, a week later he was totally convinced that he was ready to marry Fanny and Fanny was the love of his life, like the end. And it's like whoa Dude, you are all over the place.
izzy:1:00:52
Literally. Oh my gosh, it kind of makes me think, a little bit like about Ron, you know, when he's I can't remember the girl's name is when he's dating that girl in Lavender, in Half-Blood Prince, is it? Yeah, and it's a half-blood prince that he's dating. Your is, isn't it? So he joins the quidditch team. Yeah, it just makes me think about yeah. So funny. I did have another point for him to be Gryffindor, though. I've just thought of then that he he seeks so much like confirmation and validation from from Fanny about Mary Crawford, and I feel like that's very much like a Gryffindor thing, where you need other people to assure you that what you're doing is Is like you're on the right path. And he constantly goes to Fanny, like Fanny, like, what do you think of Mary Crawford? You know, what do you think about this thing that she said I mean sometimes he doesn't really listen to her, but Is that need to get confirmation from someone that they respect, that they're doing the right thing, and I think that's very much like a Gryffindor thing, whereas a Slytherin or Ravenclaw will be happy to just be like this is my fault, I'm happy with it, I'm sticking with it.
Caily :1:02:01
That is a really good point. I think Hufflepuffs and Gryffindors and he has both need a lot of external validation and you're right, like he does need. He kind of throws Fanny to the side sometimes, but then it constantly needs her validation and ego boosting. Yeah, he's a bit insecure, isn't he?
izzy:1:02:24
That drives me up the wall. Honestly, like Edmund, make your own choice. Just decide what you want. Drives me up the wall, Said the Ravenclaw.
Caily :1:02:34
What you're saying is Edmund and Fanny are your favorite of all of Austin's couples. Right, they're your faves.
izzy:1:02:42
Honestly, I have such pain, but I feel like if I was like, if I was like to meet Austin's ghost, I feel like that is the couple or the book that I would actually ask her about. I'd be like what was going on here, like what was going on with the funny Edmund dynamic, like what.
Caily :1:02:59
Yeah, I wonder if. Do you think Jane Austen liked Fanny as a protagonist?
izzy:1:03:08
I just can't see it. Because she likes Lizzie and Emma so much, I'm like how could she have liked Fanny as well? That's what would get me, because Fanny's just so. I mean, she is bold in the moments where she like turns down Henry Crawford, but that's about it. She really takes some rubbish. I'm not going to lie to you, if I was Fanny I'd be like all of this family is toxic to me. I've obviously become very attached to them. I need to remove myself and I would definitely go with Henry, because Henry really actually does fall in love with her. He says, like you know, I'm going to take her away from this family. I'm going to show her like what's out there. I'm going to give her a life she could never have dreamed of. If I was Fanny and I'd grown up around all these people, I think I would have removed myself. I think I would have been like, look, I'm a little bit concerned about X, y and Z, henry, but if you can assure me on those things, I'll come with you, because the thing with staying with Edmund is she doesn't remove herself from the situation, she just continues. She's around all those people. I know Mrs Norris is removed, but Sir Thomas Bertram and Lady Bertram. Neither of them were that decent growing up. The only reason that they like her in the end is because their other daughters run off and you know, a loathe will have an affair.
Caily :1:04:25
That is such a good point actually about. I mean, I think it is huge that Mrs Norris isn't part of the picture anymore, because she was the one who really set the tone for not only adopting Fanny but then treating her like a second class citizen. But yeah, there is sort of a weird power imbalance there that's probably hard to come back from, and also just the fact that they were set up as a brother-sister relationship little, little odd, it's so weird.
izzy:1:04:57
It's so weird to me. Yeah, absolutely. Do you think you could live being like obviously Plan B as well? Because I don't think I could, you know, because it was obviously the entire book. He wants to be with Mary Crawford and then it's like the final couple of chapters he decides on funny instead Like I could not live with that personally?
Caily :1:05:20
No, I'd be so angry, I don't think I'd be able to get over that. I think an argument is they set it up that he doesn't know himself well enough to realize he's in love with Fanny the whole time Because he always respects Fanny's opinion so much you know what I mean Like he's always like oh yeah, fanny's right, his intuition tells him he's not a good fit with Mary. He keeps ignoring it. So I think I get the argument that he finally has this big moment where it was like it was you all along. But if I were Fanny I don't know if I could forgive that, all of those shenanigans.
izzy:1:05:59
I know Also if you're thinking about like the, you know friends to lovers trope and you compare it to Emma. Like Emma in Nightly situation. I mean night and day. I mean you know what I mean. That's real difference there.
Caily :1:06:12
Oh my gosh. Yeah, when you say it like that, fanny and Edmund do seem so much more incestuous. All right, let's leave it behind.
izzy:1:06:23
Let's just end it there, okay. Okay then. Do you want to move on to you, mr Nightly? Then the final one.
Caily :1:06:29
Yeah, I love Mr Nightly.
izzy:1:06:31
I just have to say he's my favorite.
Caily :1:06:34
Do you want to do the primary house first?
izzy:1:06:38
Okay. So my primary house, Mr Nightly, is Ravenclaw. So, oh my gosh, I feel like we've got different ones. We've got different ones. Yeah, yeah, Never second. Okay, I will tell you my reasoning behind Ravenclaw, then. So one of the main reasons is that he's so independent and kind of introverted. You know he spends a lot of his time at Dunwall Abbey on his own, and has done for a really long time. He likes to be in his own company, he's not afraid of it and yeah, I feel like that's out of all of the houses. I feel like that suits a Ravenclaw. More, he's open-minded and sees past superficial differences. So we see his behavior towards Robert Martin and William Larkin. You know these people work on his estate, but he is so caring and he sees them as equals, even though in society stands they aren't. So there's like a moment at the end of Emma, which I love, in which he says to Emma you know you make fun of me about William Larkin's, but I could quite as ill spare Robert Martin, and you know, if I could adjust his position in society that I would. Actually, I think that was a quote, that was something that I was going to bring in later. No, it isn't. No, it isn't. That's fine. If I could, you know, change his position in society, I would, and I just think you know that's like so nicely. He looks beyond what society says about people. The same with Jane Fairfax he really admires her because of her ability on the piano and I really think that Jane Fairfax is a Ravenclaw, and I feel like you know, I feel like they get on so well because they're like they have this like Ravenclaw Ravenclaw bond. He's got so much wit and is incredibly intelligent. I mean, if we look at his like the arguments that he has with Emma, you know he really holds his own and he comes with facts and can back it up and he's like, you know, this is this is how I see it he's not really got time for stupidity. So you know he thinks the piano fort is like a really silly gift because he's like it's not practical at all. She lives in a tiny house and he thinks it's a boyish scheme. He's described as being prophetic and having the ability to kind of predict the future, and this made me think of Sybil so much. I was literally just like, oh my gosh, like Mr Nightley predicts the Emma and Harry are not being good friends, the fact that Mr Elton isn't going to choose Harriet and the Frank and Jane situation, and I was like this is like Sybil predicting, you know, the Harry Voldemort prophecy.
Caily :1:09:18
I love that point. Oh my, so Sybil is a Ravenclaw Trelawney.
izzy:1:09:25
Yeah, yeah, it's a Ravenclaw. Yeah, oh my gosh.
Caily :1:09:28
I totally forgot that. Wait, I love that point, izzy, that he, he does, he sizes things up and he can predict the future. Oh my gosh, I did not even put that together, but that's my favorite point you've made so far about him.
izzy:1:09:43
And you know Ravenclaw's like to review the situation before charging forward. He's very much like that about his, about his suspicions about Frank and Jane. He really ponders on it and thinks about it for a while. He observes them, obviously like the secret looks that he's observing, and it takes me a while, like he really has to have his books in a row before he goes to Emma and he's like look, I'm a little bit concerned about this. Now, one thing that I struggled with about Ravenclaw traits is Ravenclaw is like Hufflepuff, so like conflicted verse, and obviously he's really up for a debate with Emma a lot of the time. In the way that I kind of got around it and I was like him and Emma are both. They are both intelligent and witty and I was like maybe if it's like a debate based on knowledge or just like your thoughts on things or you know your ideas, it's different, because I did think about the fact that he doesn't he doesn't look for other confrontations, like if you think about the fact that the scene and the Randalls when it snows outside in, john Knightley's going like he's like it's snowed, we'll all be stuck here. You know that's the end and Mr Woodhouse is freaking out, mr Knightley goes outside and he's, you know, down the street checking that everything's okay and he's like crisis averted, guys, it's all fine, nobody panic. And you know, and he never loses his temper with Mrs Alton even though she's like crazy, and he's also, you know, always really considerate to miss Bates as well. You know and we see from Emma that it's quite easy to kind of lose your temper with people like that, but he never does. He's so composed, he's so calm, yeah, and you, he spends a lot of time in his own mind. So I was like you really screams Ravenclaw to me.
Caily :1:11:28
Oh my gosh. So I really respect that you put it. His primary house is Ravenclaw. Because when I first thought of him with, with all of the heroes, I was like he has, he has, like he just has the essence of Ravenclaw, like I should put him in Ravenclaw as the primary house and I ended up not being able to do it and so do you want to guess what I put him in for? What do you think I put him in? Did you put Griffin dog? I did, I did, and it doesn't fully fit. But the reason that I put him in Gryffindor, at the end of the day, is he's he's so chivalrous, he's like I think of it. I think of Gryffindor as the knights and shining armor, protecting everyone, saving everyone. And his name is literally Mr nightly, like he's been. He's like he I think to. I think of Gryffindor as the protectors of the underdogs, right, and he is so focused on what's right. I think he does get into those debates when he thinks that Emma or someone else is doing something immoral and he's very focused on justice and actually he is measured about certain things. But he actually does lose his temper when he finds out that Emma persuaded Harriet not to marry Mr Martin. And even though Mr Martin is a lower class, he respects Mr Martin's personality, sense of honor, positive characteristics, and he's really mad at Emma for belittling Mr Martin. And then also the scene where he's like badly done Emma when Emma slates Mrs Bates like he also takes care of Mrs Bates and he he knows how to jump in and take care of everyone, just like you were saying at the party, like he's very nurturing to Mr Woodhouse. What else did I say about Mr nightly with with Gryffindor? Yeah, I think he just he cares about he, he cares about honor so much. And but then I it was so hard. He reminded me of how we both felt with with Lizzie Bennett, where it was so hard to make the final decision between Gryffindor and Ravenclaw because we really felt like instead of primary and secondary, it was really a 5050 like. If someone if listen, if listeners DM to me and said, oh, elizabeth is a Ravenclaw, I'd be like, yeah, I see that even though I put her as Gryffindor, I think that she's a Ravenclaw and I see that argument for for him to yeah.
izzy:1:14:10
I do love yeah, I know I really love some of the points you've made about him being a Gryffindor and because I can really see that and I think I see I really did toil with the fact that that that compassion towards Robert Martin, miss Bates, with him being a Gryffindor, because he's like a leader of society but isn't as kind of over the top with it that I think maybe Slytherins can often be. He's, he's very much a leader but it's kind of in the shadows a little bit more. I think he's actually like a parish counselor and if you do a parish counselor, like in the UK, we call a parish counselor somebody who runs like like the towns and stuff. They like make decisions, like if you need more bins or that kind of thing, and he's like a parish counselor in in hybrid. They like meet up at the crown and everything they talk through. I think Mr Elton and Mr Westerner as well, and I just think you know he's he's one of those people that puts themselves forwards to make sure that other people are, you know, have what they need. We see that with Miss Bates and the apples, that he goes and takes them and yeah, yeah, in the night comment yep, nightly. He is a night. He's so gallant and, yeah, it's very Gryffindor. But you're going to be so shocked when I tell you Gryffindor isn't my secondary house either.
Caily :1:15:23
Would you put for your second house? I put Hufflepuff. Yeah, I toyed with that. I see that. What did you think with Hufflepuff?
izzy:1:15:35
So I just wasn't 100% sure about this. I was back and forth with, like, gryffindor Hufflepuff. The reason I went with Hufflepuff is, I really, the fact that earth is the element for Hufflepuffs. I really feel that for nightly, like the earth element, like he's very much hands on on his estate, I think more than any of the other heroes. He knows about the different harvests, when the apples are coming, when the strawberries are coming, and he wants people to come and do those like practical things, like picking the strawberries. And I think there's a moment where they're going to build a new road in hybrid and he's like involved with that and he's saying like you can't put it through this words because it'll like affect the nature or something. And you know he's always walking everywhere or riding. He just seems like really in touch with the natural world, you know. And so, yeah, I was kind of drawn to him as being a Hufflepuff, you know.
Caily :1:16:27
I see it, and I had that as his secondary house to at one point. I think I'm even looking at my notes with that. Yeah, didn't he? Even though he has all the money to take a carriage, didn't he always prefer to walk and, like he's, he doesn't care about, even though he's well off, he doesn't care about grandeur or status or any any of that. I really like what you said about his down to earthness, right like the earth element of Hufflepuff. I agree with that. I think I see him as Emma's barometer, like he. Well, this is a raven clot trade actually. He has a strong sense of wisdom and he really knows who he is and he helps ground Emma, which, oh my gosh.
izzy:1:17:18
Now I'm saying it's hard, it's so, so hard. I'm like. I'm like looking at some of the like initial traits that we put down for like Hufflepuff and like treats everyone equally, he really does that, is inclusive, is patient, like he is pay. I know that he, like you know, has these arguments with Emma, but he is patient with her and he lets her learn and grow loyal. He's really loyal to the woodhouses, you know like they're like his substitute family, more or less yeah, he agrees to move in with Mr Woodhouse.
Caily :1:17:54
like that requires some patience.
izzy:1:17:57
Yeah, and to give up something that's so important, say, if you know, if we put Ravenclaw is like a primary trait, like his Ravenclaw qualities, a primary trait, giving up his independence to move in with the woodhouses would be a really big step, like given whether we had like Gryffindor or Hufflepuff sides. You know that would that would be a lot for him to do. It really takes some consideration. But you know, love kind of trumps it, which makes me think more Hufflepuff because you know he's willing to make those sacrifices.
Caily :1:18:24
When you said that about his agreeing to give up his independence for Emma and drop things to move in with her, that's when. That was the moment where I'm okay with letting go of Gryffindor, because that's a Hufflepuff that Gryffindors would never give up their independence, that's so oh my gosh, wait, you really blew my mind. Okay, wait. So listen to this. I wrote down this quote and I want to see what house do you associate this with. Mr Knightley's air is so remarkably good that it's not fair to compare Mr Martin with him. You might not see one in 100 with gentlemen so plainly written as in Mr Knightley. Remember when Harriet and Emma were talking about how Mr Knightley is the perfect gentleman, and so if someone's a gentleman, what house do we associate that with?
izzy:1:19:18
Oh, that's such a good question. Oh, my god, I think that's subjective, like I genuinely do like, do you think, think about, like characteristics, and what do you think is the strongest trait of a Hufflepuff? For me I'd say it's their kindness, and I'd say for Gryffindor's their strongest trait is bravery, and if I'm going off that, I think Mr Knightley's more kind than brave Because he holds back on telling Emma his feelings because he knows what he'd be sacrificing should she say no, you know what I mean He'd lose this family that he's a part of and his friend Emma and he's really like even maybe the society as a whole. It'd be really tough for him and he goes away. He leaves because he thinks that she's more interested in Frank Churchill. He leaves and I just don't know if a Gryffindor would do that. I feel like a Gryffindor would say They'd say like I've got feelings for you, like I need to be honest about it, like you don't think about, like Harry and Cho Chan, like obviously she's like just lost Cedric not so long ago, but he's still Prashusa, whereas I feel like a hufflepuff would leave in wait and see, you know, yeah.
Caily :1:20:36
Oh my gosh, I'm so torn because, yes, blindness, okay, loyalty, is associated with Gryffindor and Hufflepuff. And I that's on the forefront of like how I view Mr Knightley Chivalry, he's so chivalry let's look up the definition of chivalry, right, because that's so Gryffindor, then the kindness is so Hufflepuff. What do you think?
izzy:1:21:08
Ah, it's so hard. Okay, let's look at it a different way then. So our picks for Emma were Slytherin and Gryffindor. So if we think of it from that stance, do you think I think it would make sense him being a Gryffindor, because I feel like a Ravenclaw and Slytherin are a good match together. So if that's both their primary houses and then a Gryffindor, Gryffindor, a secondary house would kind of make sense. It's kind of how they I don't know, I thought it was something that I was like. I don't know if I even believe what I'm saying.
Caily :1:21:44
I love that. I love that. I said that Mr Darcy was the hardest, but this is so difficult. Can we just say he's so wonderful that he gets to be three houses? No, that's cheating, okay. So definition of chivalrous is courteous and gallant. He's so chivalrous, right? But then, okay, you're right. This is a good way to look at it because we're stuck right now.
izzy:1:22:10
So we said Emma was primary Slytherin and I said Ravenclaw is secondary, but you said Gryffindor and I think you swayed me to Gryffindor.
Caily :1:22:24
Okay, so from my understanding, Slytherins and Ravenclaws tend to be attracted to one another right Because they both have that practical savviness. They're both more independent, and Gryffindors and Hufflepuffs tend to share those common traits of being loyal, a commitment to justice. So they're usually attracted to each other. So wouldn't it make sense if Emma's primary Slytherin, secondary Gryffindor, that he would be primary Ravenclaw, secondary Hufflepuff or yeah, like a combination of all the houses.
izzy:1:23:07
Okay. So maybe he's you know what, you know what I think it is, and maybe it's that he's neither got strong Gryffindor or Hufflepuff traits in the scent that we can make it a secondary house. For me he's very much Ravenclaw, that's the thing. That's why I struggled to place him. I don't know, was Ravenclaw your primary?
Caily :1:23:23
I ended up making Gryffindor my primary, but when I have a gut instinct and I don't think about it too hard and I think of all of the heroes, when I look at him as if I can see him, when I think of him and just capturing his essence, I do think Ravenclaw vibes Okay.
izzy:1:23:50
Well, if you felt strongly enough about it to put Gryffindor as his primary house until we discussed that, I would say he's probably Ravenclaw Gryffindor.
Caily :1:24:01
Let's go with it. He's so wonderful. He also has the best of Hufflepuff too.
izzy:1:24:08
Yeah, he doesn't really have the weaknesses of Hufflepuff. I wouldn't say he's not easily led.
Caily :1:24:13
No, and that's what I think is very Ravenclaw about him is his wisdom, just like you said, his ability to anticipate what's going to happen, and his groundedness and what he thinks is right. That sense of self, I think is very Ravenclaw. I'm on board with that.
izzy:1:24:32
Okay, let's go. Ravenclaw Gryffindor then for Mr Knightley.
Caily :1:24:40
Oh my gosh, I can't wait to hear what the listeners think too, because I would respect it going so many different ways with him. But yes, let's set on that.
izzy:1:24:50
I know? Yeah, absolutely. I'd love to hear well, we'd love to hear what you guys have to say on this as well. So, yeah, please feel free to reach out to us, let us know your thoughts, but that is everything from us today. Kaylee, do you want to let everyone know where they can find you? So I'm on.
Caily :1:25:06
Instagram as half underscore agony underscore, half underscore hope, and yeah, I hope you follow me there. I post a lot of literature quotations, mostly Jane Austen, but a range of different authors, and then obviously have the link to the podcast there too. Take that one Absolutely Well. Anyway, thank you so much for having me on. This is so much fun to dissect this together.
izzy:1:25:35
Absolutely, and we'll be back on later in the month with the other three novels and after today. Oh my gosh, like I don't think I'm mentally prepared for the next novel. I need to get my thoughts straight because, wow, this was. It was a lot tougher than I was thinking to sort the heroes.
Caily :1:25:53
Oh my gosh, it really was. I think it's so interesting how on the same page we were with Edmund, but then Mr Darcy and Mr Knightley. They both were so difficult because they have so many layers. They're such nuanced characters, which is why they do the best.
izzy:1:26:10
Absolutely so yeah, if you want to follow me and see any updates with the podcast, you can find me on Instagram at what the Austin and I share everything on there, so that's probably the best place to find out what's going on. That's everything from us today, and we'll see you in the next episode.
Izzy:0:19
Hi, joe Knights, and welcome back to the what the Austin podcast. This is a part two of our Harry Potter series, matching the heroes to their Harry Potter houses, and so Kaylee is back on with me, so welcome back, kaylee.
Caily:0:32
Thanks so much for having me back and I'm really excited to continue sorting these heroes into their primary and secondary houses.
Izzy:0:42
I know, I know I love doing these episodes. It's so much fun and I really enjoyed the last one. I knew we got into some just like really random, really random debates, but it was like useful to talk through because I think some of these have been a bit more tricky. I actually thought I might find it easier with the heroes than the heroines and I worried that it wouldn't be like there wouldn't be like a dynamic conversation, because I thought it was just going to be straightforward. But then when I've actually gone into it, I'm like, oh my gosh, I am all over the place with pairing these heroes to houses.
Caily:1:14
Damn, I kept going, particularly with the secondary houses. I kept going back and forth and rotating, and I don't know if you have this at all, but particularly for this part two section, with these particular characters. I kept for certain characters having a primary house and having a really, really difficult time even having a secondary house at all. So it would either be that or it would be. I'd want to have the characters be sorted into three houses.
Izzy:1:46
Like, oh my gosh, that was literally me as well. Honestly, I was some of the time I was like, look, there's no secondary house, Like they are just one house, and then I'm like trying to fit them into a secondary one and I'm like the only thing I can come up with is reasons why they're not in any of the other houses.
Caily:2:04
That's so funny. I did the same thing for one particular character. I wonder if we're thinking of the same person, but I just started writing down an argument for why he could not have a secondary house.
Izzy:2:16
That sounds just like just like what I was going through, so I it probably is the same person. So which Hogwarts house would Captain Wentworth be in? Do you want to go first with your picks, or should I go first?
Caily:2:30
You go first, you got it.
Izzy:2:33
You want me to go first. You want to steal my ideas? I know it, okay, okay. So I really struggled to Captain Wentworth like massively, and so I could only really pick a primary house, and then I just had loads of reasons why he wasn't in any of the other houses.
Caily:2:52
Okay, go for it. Similarly, I had one primary house, or like this is him.
Izzy:2:57
Okay, so I put Gryffindor is his like primary house. Did you put the same?
Caily:3:03
Absolutely. He's tried and true Gryffindor. He reminds me of Sirius Black's energy. Like, I think of him as very similar to Sirius Black in the way that he presents as a Gryffindor.
Izzy:3:17
Oh, that's interesting. Okay, so the reasons that I put him down as a Gryffindor is he's brave, true, and will do the noble thing. So obviously he's a war captain. So you know, he's not clearly brave because he's gone off to like the Napoleonic War and was a captain and everything. So that was like one of the main reasons why I consider him to be, to be brave, even though we don't necessarily see that in the book itself. He's consistent with his feelings towards Anne and yet he'd be willing to marry Louisa when he realizes that he's led her on. I'm just like that seems so Gryffindor to me, like someone who's like willing to do like the noble thing. You know he's emotional, he thinks with his heart. Compared to like a Slytherin, which I know you often say Slytherin's a lot more emotionally regulated. Captain Wentworth is not at all like. He totally like just goes with his like heart over his head and he can be pretty petty when it comes to love. Do you know the dinner table scene when he's like making snide comments that are not the fact that she was like so fickle or that she wasn't, like you know, steadfast in her thoughts on him and he makes like at the start of the novel. He's actually so dodgy, he makes so many horrible remarks and it made me think about, you know, how awful Ron is to Hermione when she takes Victor Crum to the and the Yule Ball and he makes like all those horrible comments. I was like it's that pettiness, you know.
Caily:4:47
Yeah, it's resentful, it's this scornful energy, because and it makes sense, because Gryffindors have so much pride.
Izzy:4:54
Yes, yeah, absolutely. And also the fact that he leads Louisa on. Even though he knows that he's in love with Anne, he still leads Louisa on. And that made me think about Hermione taking McClellan to Slocorn's party and the fact that she says you know, I took him because that would annoy Ron the most. And I was like, oh, again, it's this like, like you said, like a resentful nature and just being like super petty when it comes to love, being so stubborn that you can't admit your feelings, that you're willing to go to like crazy with lengths and, you know, really prod the person that you love. And it's like, why, why, why are you doing this? What was?
Caily:5:30
those are such good comparisons because, you're right Gryffindors, for all of their chivalry and bravery, there is this stubborn streak where it's. I have to stand my ground on this issue, and it does. It can become very petty.
Izzy:5:46
Yes, absolutely. And then I just had one more point for Gryffindor and that was I feel like Gryffindors often I think I said this in some of the other matches that we've done but I feel like Gryffindors often seek confirmation from others that they're doing the right thing. And you see this a lot from Wemler. So you know he goes to Anne for confirmation that. You know him going in first before like Henrietta and Anne go in to kind of let the family know that Louisa's fallen and like cracked her head open. Like he's like Anne, am I doing the right thing here? And she's like yes. And then also with Captain Harville, you know, when he like says to him like you've got to marry Louisa, because isn't that what this whole thing is about In the Wentworths, like no, what, I had no idea. And Harville's like oh, maybe you could go away for a couple of weeks and it'll be fine. Do you know what I mean? It's like looking for other people for advice, like how to get out of a situation. I feel like that's a lot more Gryffindor Like. I feel like they do rely on others to kind of give them some wisdom. Sometimes we see that with Harry and Luna. You know he's like you know what's going on here with certain things, or like when he's like how are we going to get to London? And it's like other people have to have to let him know, or Hermione all the time has to tell him what he needs to do.
Caily:7:01
I had never thought about that external reassurance piece before, but that that's very true. You know, gryffindors, they will be the leaders, they will jump into action, but there is this reassurance piece that they need where they need to verbally process and get advice and, yes, wentworths needs that from Anne and others. I hadn't even thought about that Harville part, but that's true.
Izzy:7:31
I just thought. Another example is well, you know, when Harry has to speaks to Sirius and he's like am I a bad person and like Sirius needs to be like you know, people aren't split into good or bad. We all have gray.
Caily:7:43
Yes, there are a lot of these life pep talks, aren't there? There's a lot of. Am I bad? Am I doing the right thing? There's a lot of questioning and it's interesting. Maybe that prepares Gryffindors to really then step up and be brave and and take the bold action. Yeah, I'm I. Anything else you want to say about Gryffindor that?
Izzy:8:07
was all my points for.
Caily:8:08
Gryffindor. Yeah, I'm so with you. I immediately I thought, of all the heroes, I think Wentworth shows up as the most quintessential Gryffindor. He's described as having a glowing, manly, open look, just like you said, the fact that he is a naval captain. He's bold, he's brave, he's confident. When Anne is, you know, concerned about his social status, when he originally proposes to her, he has a lot of confidence in himself. He is convinced. He's saying I'm going to make something of myself and what? Yeah, so what's braver than being a naval captain, especially in that day and age? Again, serious, he reminds me of serious black and that he's very impetuous. He's very caring as a strong personality where he's a leader, but he's also he also has some of the weaknesses of Gryffindor, just like you said. He low impulse control. I would see him if someone really crossed and I think he would probably punch them. He's he's rash, right, and even with the situation with Louisa's fall, I think his rashness shows up a lot. You mentioned this in depth, but I was. I was thinking about how prideful he is, that stubborn pridefulness, and, yeah, he just has the passionate fire of a Gryffindor that serious has. And I want to read this quotation that he says he always talks about how he values people who are firm in their character and knowing who they are, and that feels very Gryffindor to me. He says it is the worst evil of to yielding an indecisive, a character that no influence over it can be dependent on. Let those who would be happy be firm. So he really admire someone who knows their own mind and what else? Oh, he has the Gryffindor savior complex in a way, like when Anne gets really tired and during their long walk and Anne's falling behind and thinks no one notices her. Originally Anne wasn't gonna be able to get into the carriage and there's only a spot for one person, and so this is one of my favorite quotations of Jane Austen, so I have to read it to you. So, anyway, he ends up making sure that Anne gets into the carriage, and here's the section yes, he had done it. She was in the carriage and felt that he had placed her there, that his will and his hands had done it, that she owed it to his perception of her fatigue and his resolution to give her rest. It was a remainder of former sentiment. It was an impulse of pure, though unacknowledged, friendship. It was proof of his own warm and amiable heart which she could not contemplate without emotions so compounded with pleasure and pain that she knew not which prevailed. Let me get one of crying. I literally had to hear it. Yeah, so I just he. And also he's described as having an open heart numerous times throughout the novel and I feel like that can be characterized with Gryffindor or Hufflepuff, but that openness is very Gryffindor.
Izzy:11:42
See, if there's anything else, yeah, I think that's often why Gryffindor has to have so many partners. Like if you think about like the Harry Potter series, like it's always the Gryffindors that are like jumping from who they're dating all the time, and I feel like that is because they're a lot more like open hearted, like they wear the heart on the sleeve, compared to like Slytherin's and Ravenclaw's that I think are a little bit more independent and don't jump into things as quickly. Like you see that with Cho Chang, like she's really awkward about moving on with Harry Like it you know what I mean. It's like I feel like it's really that's a really awkward relationship in my eyes. I feel like Harry's pushing it more than Cho Chang's like into it. So yeah, I feel like Gryffindor's are definitely more, more hot on their sleeves kind of people.
Caily:12:22
Yeah, you know what you'd get with a Gryffindor. I'm curious. So did you end up choosing a secondary house, or were you like I can't?
Izzy:12:33
Oh my gosh it. My heading for this bit just says reasons why I can't place him in a secondary house. They're just cut like a list, tell me Okay. So I was thinking about him maybe being a Hufflepuff in a secondary house because he's so hard working. You know he's self made out of all of the heroes in the novels, like he's the one that really you know builds his own career and he does really well for it. You know he's really wealthy in the end. And so I thought like hard working is such like a Hufflepuff trait. But then I thought he's not in any way codependent and I feel like that is maybe a bit of a weakness of a Hufflepuff, that kind of like needing to be around people, and you know he goes like eight years without an. You know I mean like an phase that he's willing to like graft as opposed to be with a person he loves, and I don't, I just don't see that as being like a Hufflepuff thing. And he isn't easily led in. You know that is something that often Hufflepuffs are. In fact he's so, like you said, like he's so adamant against that, like he is kind of miffed with Anne, the fact that she was so easily led by Lady Russell, and so that's like a trait that he really despises in other people and I just don't think he has it all Like he really values people being steadfast and staying true to their conviction, and I just the Hufflepuff's, just not known for that. So so I'm a little bit like I can't seem to be a Hufflepuff for that reason. I thought he's a little bit judgmental at times so I thought maybe Ravenclaw. But then I was like no, he's not really, it's not overpowering enough, I think, to be a Ravenclaw, and I was like he is self-sufficient, which is quite slithering. But again I was like that's not overpowering either. So I'm just like I just can't play. He's just so, Gryffindor, that I can't place him in another house. Did you puff on my dirt?
Caily:14:24
Yeah, I was feeling. I was feeling the same way and what I decided is he is 98% Gryffindor and then if I had to choose a secondary house, I would say he's 2% Hufflepuff. And the reason there are two reasons. I would say that the first you mentioned, which is he works his way up, he works for what he gets, he is committed to his career and he's willing to go after it and he is steadfast with that, and I think that trait is very Hufflepuff. I actually think the only other reason I could put him in Hufflepuff is, even though he says that firmness of character is so important to him, I actually think his flirting with he flirts with both sisters and doesn't really make it clear who he prefers at first. And I actually don't think all of that is maliciousness toward Anne. I think he's trying to. I think he's indecisive and I think he's trying to convince himself that he's over and and he doesn't really know which of the sisters he's going to go for. So he kind of just lets it drag out and is a little bit irresponsible and indecisive about that and then, of course, feels horribly guilty after. But yeah, that's my argument, because I don't think he's Slytherin at all, and I don't think he's Ravenclaw at all. So I see those, do you see? Yeah, so those are the two things where I could put him a very tiny sliver Hufflepuff.
Izzy:15:55
Yeah, I can actually really see that because I think for Hufflepuff's, compared to Slytherin's, working for what you get really important and I feel like it's a foil to all of the other people in persuasion, like the Walter Aliots, where they're all, like you know, obsessed with like status and position and the fact that it's like a birthright, not something they've earned, and they look down so much on people who've worked for what they've got. I really, yeah, I think that really does speak to his Hufflepuff traits, the willing that he, the fact that he's willing to work for for his success in life.
Caily:16:29
Exactly that commitment to valuing meritocracy. And, oh my gosh, when you brought up Sir Walter Elliot is still cracks me up that he couldn't read anything except their own family history, Whenever it was born. So odd.
Izzy:16:48
I know that's so funny. That does crack me up so much, and then it makes me think that isn't that so slither in there. It makes me think of Sirius's mom and the fact that she had like the whole family tree is like wallpaper, Like I feel like Sir Walter Elliot would do that.
Caily:17:02
Oh my gosh. And then people were, weren't they burned off the wallpaper. So messed up yeah.
Izzy:17:10
Oh my gosh, so funny. Okay, great, so we're going for. Gryffindor is his primary, very primary house, and then Hufflepuff is a secondary house.
Caily:17:22
If we, if we even had to choose a secondary house, I think we really think, like he is tried and proved, gryffindor Okay so what Hogwarts house would Edward Ferres be in?
Izzy:17:34
I'll let you go first for this one, all right.
Caily:17:38
So we've. We've talked before about how it can be so difficult to choose a primary and secondary house, because some of these characters you could, you feel like you can see at least three, if not all four houses. Edward Ferres, to me, was one where I feel like he has a primary house and I really truly could not see a secondary house for him. If no, I really I wrote down all the reasons why he couldn't be in the other three houses and so I placed him as Hufflepuff and I wanted to say that his primary is Hufflepuff and his secondary is either a muggle or a squid. I don't want to be me, I gosh. Yeah, oh, my god, that's brilliant. I was no, I was thinking it, I kept thinking it, I was like I'm not gonna do it Now. I have to speak my truth. That's how I feel. That being said, I want to say that the adaptations, both the Emma Thompson I think it's 1996 adaptation and the 2000 eight adaptation of Sense and Sensibility, I think they really make Edward Ferres character come to life more and have him be much more personable and endearing. But book version of Edward I do admire certain things, but I just I do also find him kind of weak in certain ways. So anyway, I, yeah I would say I placed him as Hufflepuff because he's really focused on duty, on doing the honorable thing. You know he is incredibly loyal. He, you know, as you all know, he had this engagement to Lucy Steele when he's super young and it's clear that on his side at least, that it's fizzled out. But he is committed to staying loyal to her, even though he's fallen for Eleanor, and also he's extremely loyal to her and I think that's a really good point. He's extremely modest. He doesn't like to be the center of attention. He wants a humble life, right, Like he just wants to. He wants to be a clergyman and he wants to give the sermons on Sunday. He comes from a very ambitious family and his sister. Oh my gosh, Fanny is embodies a lot of the negative traits of a Slytherin. His mother and sister put a lot of effort into getting some ambitious job and he just does not want that. Let's see what else. Oh wow, I'm being kind of mean about him. I also wanted to say, since the world's most wet, blanket, boring couple would be Fanny Price and Edward can you imagine those? two together Anyway, no, oh, my god. Okay, I'm not sure about him. So I actually I pulled this quote that Mary Ann says about Edward. That I think really captures a lot of his good qualities. So Mary Ann says I'm very sure that conscience only kept Edward from Harley Street. And I really believe that he has the most delicate conscience in the world, the most scrupulous in performing every engagement, however minute and however it may make against his interest or pleasure. He is the most fearful of giving pain, of wounding expectation, and the most incapable of being selfish of anybody I ever saw. And so, while you know that Edward Beers is not my favorite, I do really see his level of selflessness. He was supposed to get this inheritance, he was supposed to get all of this money and he refuses. And even when his family says we're gonna completely disown you, we will completely disown you if you marry this girl, he doesn't even love the girl and he stands up against them and says I'm not gonna do the unloyal thing.
Izzy:21:49
So I think because he knows it'll like completely destroy Lucy's life. Like that's how. Like selflessly, it's like he's like oh, I can't if I call off the engagement, that will completely ruin Lucy's standing in society.
Caily:22:00
Like yeah, he really puts others first and that's it's so. It's so hufflepuff, like he doesn't have a selfish bone in his body, and I really do admire that. Yeah, I would say Eleanor describes him as you know, having a taste that's delicate and pure. They really they talk about his, that he's pure apart, and I truly believe that. What do you think about him? I?
Izzy:22:37
100% agree. I think he's hufflepuff through and through and when you were reading some of the quotes of the way that others describe him, that could quite as easily be just people describing hufflepuffs. I feel like it's that close. Yeah, I think I had a lot of the points of usage. You know, he's very much guided by the wishes of his mother and sister and I think hufflepuffs often because are guided by what their family wants, because they're loyal to their families. He avoids confrontation. You know, like he just accepts what people tell him all the time. And I do get what you mean, like he is a bit of a wet lettuce. But I remember I did that episode with Alice where we kind of talked about like the reasons why he is quite a good hero, like some of his good qualities, and I think he really battles with the fact that he's quite insecure at times and for his whole life people have told him that he's like nothing special and you know, and he's kind of bought into all this. He's like telling people like you know, I'm not ambitious, I'm not that intelligent, I'm not really got much going for me, and so I actually think his main issue is that he's just really insecure. But I do think he's really kind and sensitive and I love what you said about him being like really humble and like modest, because like he actually makes the point of saying all I want is domestic comforts, and I love him. One of the adaptations they talk about how he just desperately wants chickens I just think that's so funny. It's just like I just want some chickens in like a small house it's fine. And you know, half a person are really modest, like they're not after anything too flashy. And he's naive when it comes to Lucy. You know, I know he doesn't love her, I know he doesn't love her anymore, but he didn't quite realize she was quite as evil as she is and he's really shocked when it all comes out. He's like my God, I can't believe that. Not only is she sent me this letter where she says you know she has no feelings for me and for me to like burn anything I ever sent, but she's also gone with my brother who's got the fortune and I think he is really like sidetracked by that. He's just like wow. And on top of that, you know, when Eleanor tells him everything that went on with her and Lucy, like the fact that Lucy is really like the fact that Lucy adused her. It's like this person that she told all her secrets to, even though she knew that there was something going on between Eleanor and Edward. It's just like awful. You know, I think he's shocked at that as well. He's like gosh. I never realized she was so jealous.
Caily:24:58
You're right. His naivety about not seeing into the evils of Lucy's character, I think that's very hufflepuff. To want to see the best in people. And yeah, he I mean he chooses duty, responsibility and moral conscience over money and inheritance. And yeah, what could be more of a hufflepuff quality? And yeah, when you just re described Lucy just running off with his brother, I mean yeah, wow, yeah all of us family, except him, I would say are in Slytherin and really embody the more negative traits of Slytherin. Oh, yeah, yeah absolutely yeah.
Izzy:25:40
At least he's just an awful character and so so many of us like his family members. It's just, it's just terrible. This poor hufflepuff is just like surrounded by crazy people. Did you have any like secondary house thoughts? For I just have laser question marks. I have like Griffin dot question question mark. Raven clock question mark.
Caily:26:00
Okay. So actually, when I was talking it through, I came to some close up questions. I came to some closure on it where I am going to choose a secondary house for him, while also saying that I think he's mostly hufflepuff. But I did the same thing. That's so funny. You said that I said not Slytherin because he's not ambitious nor cunning, nor shrewd, not Ravenclaw because he doesn't read well or have intellectual passion. Remember when Marianne says he lacked a st in? Oh my gosh, I have another quote from Marianne. His eyes want all that spirit, that fire which at once announced virtue and intelligence. And besides all that, I'm afraid, mama, he has no real taste. Music seems seriously to attract him, and though he admires Eleanor's drawings very much, it's not the admiration of a person who can understand their worth.
Izzy:26:55
I was like Marianne so brutal at times she honestly cracks me up. I feel like this is like I truly see, like more of her Ravenclaw sides now like no, after we taught it through. I know that wasn't like a podcast episode he did but I truly see it and I feel like it's that judgmental. That's why she's like. She's just like if you're not as small as me, then there's issues there.
Caily:27:16
She, and actually that's a beautiful, that's a beautiful change that Marianne has, because she is so snobby and judgmental of a lot of people, a bit of Edward, but then she ends up loving him so much as a brother and defending him and thinking so well of him. So it's good to see that their relationship improves throughout the novel. Yeah, oh, my gosh, oh, okay, so I don't think he's a Ravenclaw, but I did write this down. One of my favorite quote I really love that's his is I wish, as well as everybody else, to be perfectly happy, but like everybody else, it must be in my own way. And so I put Ravenclaw to treat question mark, just because I don't think he's a Ravenclaw, but I think a Ravenclaw would say that like, like, valuing their individualism and independence and not wanting other people to tell them what to do or how to live their lives.
Izzy:28:12
Yes, I love that, I always love that quote and I definitely do see that something that Ravenclaw's would say yeah, because they just really value just being their own person and not having other people interfere. And I think that's really what Edward's seeking in life is that people are no longer interfering in what he wants in his life, because he spent his whole life being dictated to of what he needs to do and who he needs to be.
Caily:28:36
Exactly, and I think, and so that's why what I landed on was I'm I'm going to put his secondary house very slim amount and he doesn't have all the qualities that I'm going to put it as Gryffindor, because I think it was really brave that he was willing to sacrifice all of his financial security to stand up for what's right. Think about how easily swayed he was. Think about how much he hates conflict. Think about how much he cared what his mom and his sisters and his family thought of him. And he still, they could not, at the end of the day, they could not convince him out of his sense of honor. And so, yeah, that's my argument, that he has a little bit of Gryffindor.
Izzy:29:23
Yeah, I actually put the same points for him to be Gryffindor as well, and then also the fact that he seeks out kind of a place of belonging. So, you know, with his family he's always felt like neglected and he wasn't appreciated or even loved. I think he says it's really sad. But then he goes to you know Lucy's family where he meets Lucy and the Prats and he thinks he feels like he belongs there and that they really accept him and they love him and appreciate him. And he actually says to Eleanor you know, that's the reason I really fell in love with her is because for once in my life I was being cared for and loved and appreciated in a place. And it makes me think about, you know, characters like Harry, where he finds a sense of belonging with the Weasleys, or Sirius talks about how he went on stage with the Potters because he just didn't like his family or fit in with his family, and so I feel like Gryffindor's often able to go and find the places where they belong and feel at home with those people.
Caily:30:22
That's such a good point, and then that connects to what you said too, and that's a place where they can get that external reassurance and support when they need to talk things through and get advice.
Izzy:30:32
So just before we move on to the next topic, then I just want to say a little bit about our sponsor, house of Bennett. If, like me, you love taking a break from your modern life to escape into Jane Austen's world of handwritten letters, romantic rendezvous and long walks in the countryside, you will love the House of Bennett shop. House of Bennett offers stickers, pins, jewellery, totes, shirts and so much more All themes around your favourite classic literature and period dramas, including Jane Eyre, anne of Green Gables, little Women and, of course, the works of Jane Austen. Head over to HouseofBennettcom. That's H-A-U-S-O-F-B-E-N-N-E-T dot C-O-M, and use my code WhatTheDiscount for 15% off at the checkout. So once again, that's HouseofBennettcom and use my code WhatTheDiscount for 15% off. So what Hogwarts house would Colonel Brandon be in? Do you want to go first or do you want me to go first with my picks?
Caily:31:27
Got this. So, colonel Brandon, it was interesting doing the other two characters where I could think of a primary house right away and it was hard to even come up with a secondary house because I was so sure, colonel Brandon, there was one house I eliminated right away. I don't see him as Slytherin at all in any regard, but I do. I saw elements of Gryffindor, hufflepuff and Ravenclaw and, to fully disclose, I kept going back and forth and rotating between them. So I landed on Hufflepuff as his primary house and I kind of want to go into that first and then I'll get to the secondary, and I had a really hard time deciding between Ravenclaw and Gryffindor.
Izzy:32:16
Can I just say before you get started, because you're going to die at this, I put Slytherin as one of his houses. I did, but I'd love to hear your thoughts. Yeah, we can get into it. I feel like I'm floored.
Caily:32:37
I'm shook. Oh gosh, I can't. Okay, well, I would never have guessed that, never. Oh my gosh, I know here, I'm so curious. Okay, we're covering now. Um. So yeah, when I thought of Colonel Brandon, one of the first things I thought about was his level of patience and tolerance. You know he has to think about how quiet and steady he is in his love for Marianne. It's not allowed I'm going to express this to you all the time. It's just this very stoic, consistent regard and think about how patient he has to be, constantly being in the company of all of them and Mrs Jennings speculating, and then having to see Marianne and Willoughby wandering around together. Colonel Brandon even agrees to invite Willoughby to the picnic at Delofer. So yeah, his love for Marianne goes beyond that piece of him wanting to have her. He really just wants Marianne to be happy in a very selfless way, and that feels so hufflepuff to me. I see him as extremely faithful. Once he cares about you, he is so loyal and committed to the whole family, like he befriends Eleanor. They really respect each other as friends. I love that Austin had a platonic friendship between a man and a woman, and I think that's. I think we mentioned that before, but I really like Eleanor and Brandon's mutual respect. He's a true gentleman, which made me think, okay, is that is associated with either Hufflepuff or Gryffindor. The reason I went Hufflepuff is he's a true gentleman, but he does it in a very behind the scenes way. He's not the brave heart leader of the pack. I keep talking about brave heart today.
Izzy:34:36
Every time you say brave heart, I honestly just keep thinking of like Celts.
Caily:34:40
I'm just like just cracker me up, right, mel Gibson I'm seeing that movie lately or like a John Snow, is such a Gryffindor leader type Colonel Brandon. True gentleman, but does it all in a humble way, does it all behind the scenes, doesn't need to be the center of attention, doesn't want to be the center of attention, just wants to help. That feels so Hufflepuff he also. Hufflepuffs are very true. He's a true. They're very loyal. He fulfills his promise to Eliza and brings up her child Like he's so caring. He's extremely generous. We both identified Edward as a very Hufflepuff and I think one way that Colonel Brandon's generosity shows up is he respects the moral acts of other Hufflepuffs. So he sees that Edward has stood up against his family and tried to do the honorable thing by marrying Lucy. And then he, colonel Brandon, doesn't even know Edward really and offers him this living without knowing him and doesn't do it in this attention seeking way. He gets Eleanor to ask Edward to accept the living. So it's nothing about his ego, he's just a good guy. So Hufflepuffs unite. I would say Edward and Colonel Brandon both really value duty and doing the right thing, taking responsibility. And yeah, I'm trying to think if there's anything else. When we talked about the house breakdown we talked about how Hufflepuffs have the earth element and I think of Colonel. Brandon is very connected to the earth. He's very grounded, he's very steady and, yeah, he doesn't really have the Gryffindor fire and this is a mean thing that Willoughby says about him. But I do feel like Hufflepuffs would be described in this way. Brandon is just the kind of man whom everybody speaks well of and nobody cares about, whom all are delighted to see and nobody remembers to talk to. And Willoughby, as a maladaptive Gryffindor, would say that would label Brandon as boring, but I think other people see his value in that quiet stoicism.
Izzy:37:03
Yeah, I literally wrote down that same quote for reasons that he would be a Hufflepuff, because I think Hufflepuffs are often misunderstood by other characters, particularly characters who are kind of a lot more bold and extroverted in Willoughby and Maria and together are so guilty of doing that and they constantly look down on Brandon and to the extent that Eleanor has to come to his defense. But I loved all the other points he made as well. Like you know, he is so generous, like giving Edward that living he hardly knows Edward and so doing that is just like so out of the blue and so unexpected. Even Edward's just like gosh I hardly know Colonel Brandon, that's so kind of him. So he really just takes. I feel like there's a thing about Gryffindors where they take care of just like human, like other people do not, I mean just like humans at large, like they don't mind about specific people, like Slytherins do it Slytherins. It's very much like this is somebody I love, who's really connected to me, whereas I feel like his Hufflepuff trait is really strong because he does care about everybody. However, I will come on to my reasons why I think he's a Slytherin, which just kind of contradicted that a little bit. But anyway he's patient, like he said, with the whole Marianne situation. I mean that would actually drive me up the wall, like if I was in love with somebody and I had to watch them with like another partner constantly and they kept saying like horrible stuff about me and embarrassing themselves in public. Like he has so much patience to deal with that situation and he's really hardworking. Like you've got to think to the fact that he went out like he was in the army in the war. He came back in his brother had racked up so much debt and he's had to like build their entire state up from the ground. And this is after he went and found like the woman that he loved, who was married to his brother, who ended up in like a poor house. Like you know, he works really hard to rebuild his position in society and their family fortune and so I just really think that's a Hufflepuff thing. You know really grafting, going there, getting your hands dirty and you know making it work. So, yeah, I love all of your points for Hufflepuff.
Caily:39:06
I definitely think that's his main house, that's oh, that's so true, gosh, just when you repeated that his life story is so tragic. So I'm so glad that he ends up having happiness with Marianne, because I just kept thinking, too, hufflepuffs have such high emotional control, how did he not punch Willoughby, you know like, how did he? And how did he tolerate the seeing his brother marry? The woman he loved, or seeing this, this is the daughter of his loved one, pregnant as a teen.
Izzy:39:42
And then seeing that same guy flirting with the person that he now loves, like this is pure emotional regulation that I personally do not possess, but wow.
Caily:39:55
So, yeah, that that level of calm that he can maintain is truly incredible. And so do you want me to say, do you want me to say, that secondary house houses first.
Izzy:40:09
Yeah, good for it. I'd love to hear it.
Caily:40:12
Well now I flipped back. Okay, what I really want to be like is he's, he's maybe 75% Hufflepuff. And then I almost want to split secondary between Ravenclaw and Gryffindor. It's hard for me, it's really hard for me to land on one because, on the one hand, because I think that he has he's extremely private and he has sort of this meditative, private internal world which I can sort of see about a Ravenclaw. And the biggest way I could see him being a Ravenclaw is that he and Marianne have similar artistic interests and musical tastes. Like he sends her the music for the piano forte, he is the one who actually appreciates listening to Marianne play, doesn't talk through it. They bond over poetry. He reads her poetry. They bond over that Ravenclaw aspect. So there's that. But then I was leaning a little bit more toward Gryffindor as a secondary house. It was hard for me to put him there at all because he's so highly emotionally controlled, but I think it was extremely brave of him to go in the middle of the night. He's super rash and he goes and he gets Mrs Dashedwood when Marianne is ill. And I also think he has that Gryffindor save the underdog thing. Like he care takes for everyone, he care takes to Eliza. And even though he's so emotionally controlled, when Marianne is really sick and he thinks that she's going to die, he has this moment where he's really rash and he goes, he says to Eleanor, he says give me an occupation, mrs Dashedwood, or I shall run mad. So then Eleanor sends him to go get Mrs Dashedwood and I don't know. I think it's brave, after Mary, how Marianne has treated him that he just shows up and tries again. So yeah, anyway, kind of undecided between those two.
Izzy:42:22
I love it. I know I do. I do see both elements and I feel like the bits that you were trying to pick up for those ones is kind of like the bits that I was trying to pick out for him to be a slithering. Do you want to hear my thoughts of him being secondary house? I can't believe you're shocked.
Caily:42:38
I must hear this right now.
Izzy:42:39
Yeah, okay, I had to be careful because part of me was like do I actually see him as a slithering or am I just getting so caught up in the fact that Alan Rickman plays him in the Emma Thompson adaptation? I just see Snape. But I did really think about it and I was like you know what? No, I'm not just doing it because you know Snape's in an adaptation. So the reasons that I put Slytherin down is he's extremely private, like he doesn't disclose anything about his previous love affair, the daughter, adoptive daughter, who's you know pregnant. He doesn't disclose any of that or his feelings about Marianne until he really needs to and he only tells Alan or he's very secretive about it. He keeps it to himself. He's not overly showy, like I think often Gryffindor's are, like they don't. He doesn't need to tell everybody about his feelings or even tell the person that he loves about his feelings. Another point that I made for him being Slytherin is he'll go to great lengths for someone that he loves, even if it's unrequited or unattainable, and I feel like that is so much a Slytherin trait. I feel like Slytherins are one of the only houses that can can really be satisfied with the person they love, being happy even if it's not with them, and I just think that's like a truest form of love. But I also think that's very difficult for a lot of the other people in different houses to do. You know, I think Slytherins can love without validation from the other person, but I couldn't see Gryffindor's or Hufflepuff's doing that. But I think Colonel Brandon can. I don't think it matters to him that. I don't think he cares if Marianne's never with him. He wants Marianne to be happy. The reason that he tells Eleanor about Eliza being pregnant is because he's like I can see she might end up with Willoughby. I don't want to stop that, but I need you to have all the information. Like he's not going there to be like stop, stop this right now. I want Marianne for myself. That's not his motive. And then, just another thing that I was thinking about is I know you said about like the whole, like him leaving in the middle of the night to help Mrs Dashwood and how that can be seen as a Gryffindor trait. But I was thinking about the way that Snape looks after Dumbledore and the lengths that he goes to to satisfy what Dumbledore wants, like at the end of his life. And I feel like, you know, colonel Brandon goes in the middle of the night to get Mrs Dashwood because he thinks, you know, that's what's going to make Marianne the most comfortable. So I do see it as kind of like a slithering thing as well. I just feel like slitherings will go to the end of the earth for the person that they love, and I can really see Brandon doing that for Marianne.
Caily:45:17
It's. I mean, it's a good argument. I never, I never, would have put him there. I like the point about privacy. He is very private and I think I attributed that to his living in his head like a breathing claw. But we put we put Mr Darcy as Slytherin and he has a similar secrecy and privacy that Brandon has. So I see, I see that aspect and then I think what I'm struggling with is, you're exactly right that he he actually does have parallels to the character of Snape. It's not just that he played Snape. Snape's love for Lily is similar to Brandon's love for Marianne, because, yeah, snape knows, even if she doesn't end up with me, I just I want her to be happy and I'll still always love her, and that's that's how Brandon is. And Snape is so devoted to Dumbledore and will just run off, sneak off, put his life in danger, put himself out there, I think, and kill.
Izzy:46:22
Dumbledore Like think of like the inner turmoil Snape has about that, like he doesn't want to do it. And Dumbledore was like you have to do it, you have to kill me for, like the greater good. And I just feel like that goes against all of like Snape's Slytherin side, where it's like you're asking me to do something that just goes against my whole nature. Like if it's between the greater good and saving people I love, I'll pick the people I love. Like do you want me to do this?
Caily:46:46
Oh my gosh. Yeah, see, this is. This is what's interesting, is I? I see the parallels between Colonel Brandon and Mr Darcy, with that privacy secrecy point that you brought up, and then I see the parallels between Colonel Brandon and Snape, with the devotion and the putting yourself out there, and but then what I think of is, instead of thinking of Snape as Slytherin, I think about that moment where Dumbledore is with Snape and Dumbledore says sometimes I think we sort too soon and I'm like was was Snape, did Snape have a lot of Gryffindor qualities? And that's the parallel to Brandon.
Izzy:47:30
What would put you off this like Slytherin qualities, then? What's like your main thing where you're like I don't see that as Slytherin, is it because, like you don't see him as being ambitious?
Caily:47:39
I don't see him as being ambitious. I don't see him as being cunning. I don't think he cares about like lineage, what was, what's the other. I don't see him as calculated. I see him as having a more like loving heart and doing things in a sort of pure of heart way for humanity, as opposed to means to his own end. Like, I don't think.
Izzy:48:15
Yeah, I don't, yeah, yeah, they're just maybe think about something else as well. I don't see him. He doesn't need like famous connections or really popular connections. Like if you think about somebody like Slughorn who really needs to have like these people around him who are like famous or popular or have been really successful, colonel Brandon's really not like that. And you can see, with the fact that he gives Ed with the live-in, because those people make a point that just like why would Colonel Brandon risk his reputation for someone he hardly knows in? Yeah, it's hard to see a Slytherin doing that, but that's why I think it's like he's mostly Hufflepuff, but I just think he is a little bit Slytherin. Just like the way that he loves, I think is very Slytherin and it's privacy, I think is very Slytherin. I think Gryffindor's is so much more open and I just I don't think he is. He's so much more private, he's so much more secret about you know his life and yeah, I think he feels a need to expose everything.
Caily:49:10
Maybe he's all four. Yeah, yeah, I see your point about the disposition where he's secretive and private, like, yeah, yeah, I think it's a good argument. I don't know what to do I think we don't have to.
Izzy:49:29
we don't necessarily have to agree, it's fine. We can disagree respectfully.
Caily:49:35
It's okay, We'll respectfully disagree on this one, but we both agree that he's a hufflepuff. Tried and true for the most part.
Izzy:49:44
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Are you ready to move on to Henry Tilney? I have some thoughts on this for sure. Do you want me to tell you what my primary house is? Yeah, okay. So my primary house for Henry Tilney was Ravenclaw and I felt this house so strongly for him. So the reasons why is because he loves all the same books as Catherine. He's witty, he likes to play with words and that makes me think of like Ravenclaw's and the fact that they love riddles and like, yeah, that kind of thing and yeah, it's really the reading, though that was, like my, the main reason why I wanted to put him into Ravenclaw. There's such a fantastic quote that says the person, be it gentleman or lady, who has not a pleasure in a good novel must be intolerably stupid. I have read all of Mrs Radcliffe's works, and most of them with great pleasure. The mysteries of Yadolfo when I had once begun it, I could not lay it down again. I remember finishing it in two days. And then he goes on to say, well, his sister says, oh my gosh, I remember you reading that because you kept reading it aloud to me and every time I went to do errands you kept following me and I was like oh my gosh, could you get more Ravenclaw? This is just brilliant. I know, in like one of our podcast episodes we placed Catherine Moreland as a Ravenclaw, at least as one of her houses, and I just feel like they have a Ravenclaw Ravenclaw bond and the way that they're able to kind of like talk about their passions and so, yeah, that was the main reason why I put him as Ravenclaw. Another thought that I had was he can be a little bit cynical about like Isabella Thorpe, john Thorpe and his own brother and he's not wrong about any of these people, they're all really dodgy but it made me think about kind of like Flitwick. It made me think about Flitwick, you know, when McGonagall's like ready to like start protecting Hogwarts, like against Voldemort, and he's like this is one of the felt, he's like you know, we can't hold him off indefinitely and she's like that doesn't mean we can't postpone him or whatever. And I just think a lot of Ravenclaw sometimes do have this more cynical side to them. I think you see it with Cho Chang, where she's like the diadems lost forever, whereas you know Luna, who is another Ravenclaw. She's a little bit like you know. Oh well, I've got an idea of where you can find it, but there is some Ravenclaws that really do have that that side of the cynic. And another thought I had was Trelawney and her prophecies. You know, they aren't all rainbows and fairies. You know, some of them are really dark and you know concerning, and so I feel like it's easy for them to jump to kind of darker conspiracies. You see that with Luna's dad as well, where he's like these people are vampires and they're going to, like, destroy everyone. You know. So I think they can have this kind of cynical outlook on life.
Caily:52:33
Yep, I am so with you on that. I also put his primary house as Ravenclaw. He's described as having a very intelligent and lively eye. I think of him as super witty and perceptive and I agree he and Catherine have such a good banter. I think we said she was Hufflepuff Ravenclaw hybrid, which I see because they both have this love of literature and they've got a great banter. But she's a little bit more. She has some of that Hufflepuff and just young naivety and he's extremely he's extremely perceptive. So what else did I say? Yeah, the fact that he reads, you know, says he's read hundreds of books. He understands Catherine's literary references, just like you said when you were talking about Radcliffe. And that's so funny when directly compared to John Thorpe who pretends like he knows who Radcliffe is.
Izzy:53:31
Oh my gosh. That moment with John Thorpe, where he's like when he gets it wrong and he's like pretending to be so smart and like Catherine's just keeping it to herself, like you're completely wrong about all of this, honestly cracks me up. I just think that's one of the best scenes in the whole book.
Caily:53:46
I love that and I feel like Henry's always there and he's quietly observing all of the dynamics, but he kind of keeps it to himself. But then we'll make a joke of it. It's interesting, henry kind of reminded me. He reminds me a little bit of Mr Bennett in the way that Mr Bennett is very smart about people and he kind of like takes pleasure in the folly of others that's what it says Like he notices social dynamics and they amuse him and he makes jokes about them. Clearly Henry is a little bit less cranky than Mr Bennett, but there was something there that felt it was a Ravenclaw similarity. Let's see what else did I say? I have more to say, actually about his secondary house.
Izzy:54:38
I have an argument for this. Ooh, can I add a couple more about the Ravenclaw then? Yeah, go for it. So there's a couple of other like Ravenclaw things that I wanted to add on in. I think he's really independent and self assured, like I was trying to compare him to, like Mr Darcy and you know, when Mr Darcy turns up to Maritain, him and like Bingley are together, they've got like this whole pack of people and Henry just like rocks up to balls on his own and just like starts chatting to people. Like the fact that him and Catherine are just like randomly introduced and it's just because he's just decided to turn off on his own. I just think that's so different. He just has this kind of air of confidence about him where he's happy being on his own in society and when he's not on his own, the only person he tends to be with is his sister. So I just don't think he's kind of I don't think he needs to be in these like big crowds Like I think sometimes Gryffindor's need to be like have like a pack or Slytherins often go by packs. I feel like he's just happy, just like wander around on his own. He thinks about Luna like she's so often on her own and, you know, doesn't have that many friends until she, kind of, you know, becomes close with Harry and everything. So yeah, I think that's very much a Ravenclaw thing is he can be happy independent.
Caily:55:53
That is such a good point. Yeah, he does show up to things just on his own. We don't really meet male friends of his and he seems content with that. Just like you said, he also seems to know who he is and where he stands, and when Catherine says something naive or says something that's a difference of opinion, he's really grounded in knowing his own mind, like you're not gonna change his mind, and I do think that that's very Ravenclaw. I'm looking at my notes too. And one other thing I wanted to mention is he's known for being a skilled storyteller and you know he will like assemble all of these details of the books he's read and that, just like you said, a lot of Ravenclaws are excellent readers and writers. That feels like a really good Ravenclaw trait to me.
Izzy:56:46
I love that. That just sounds so Ravenclaw. I can just imagine him just there like going through his books, like highlight his little tabs, doing deep dives, analyzing things. Yeah, I love that. I think that's amazing.
Caily:56:59
It's so cute how he and Catherine have that common interest. You can just see them as a married couple doing their little book club together and, yeah, I just love that vibe.
Izzy:57:10
Yeah, I love that, but I'd also love to hear what your secondary houses are for him. I only had one for Henry, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Caily:57:17
So I can't tell if you'll be. I think some people will be surprised by this, but I feel pretty strongly about it. Actually, I had his secondary houses slithering. I am surprised, oh my God. Well, I'm curious why you're surprised. I was surprised too, but then once I got there, I was like I feel I feel like this is right. I'm curious why you're surprised, and I wonder if it's the same reason that I initially was too.
Izzy:57:48
Okay, let me know your thoughts, because then maybe I would be so surprised when she let me know, like why you think that's the case, because I might be like okay, of course.
Caily:57:56
Okay, originally I was never going to say Gryffindor because I just don't see him as being impetuous or bold or doing anything rash. He's not a rash person. I saw Hufflepuff at first because he one way that he's really not a slither in is he his father's very ambitious and Henry doesn't care about that, like he doesn't care about that money and the inheritance piece, and a lot of people consider him to be the nicest, like the sweetest, of the Austin heroes and he also is just really devoted and loyal to his sister, eleanor. So I saw all of those traits and I was like, okay, maybe Hufflepuff. But then I was like no, there's something. I was like there's something else here and I think he's an example of a really nice Slytherin. But the reason I okay, so the reason I put him as Slytherin, is I think he has a realistic and rational and practical intelligence that Slytherins have. He is, he just is such a good judge of people and he actually is a little bit mischievous in kind of poking at people and I actually took you mentioned his cynicism. I took that as a little bit more of a Slytherin quality, like he's sardonic in his comments and it actually reminds me a little bit of Draco, like. When I think of sardonic, I think of that word describing Draco. He likes to tease people. He's really shrewd, I think. Oh, one scene that I think is really interesting is there's a section that says Catherine had just oh, catherine had just been speculating that Henry's brother had asked Isabella to dance because he saw her, that she was sitting down alone, and so he thought she was just being nice. And Henry's looking at her being being like, are you serious, do you not see what's happening here? He's attracted, he's attracted to Isabella. Henry sees the deceit and sees the mal intentions of other people and I think that's a Slytherin trait, to like pick up on when people's intentions are good or bad. And yeah, and he's a little bit pessimistic and taunting sometimes, and I, yeah. So I just I thought he was yeah.
Izzy:1:00:29
I can kind of see where you're coming from with it, but then part of it I'm just like I feel like the way that he is when he like sizes people up. I do get that being like that. That social savviness does sound very Slytherin, but he's also very hung up on like his morals, like I don't see a Slytherin condemning or judging other Slytherins for their actions and I feel like people like Isabella Thorpe, his brother Frederick, his father are all Slytherins and I don't see him like I don't know. I just don't see a Slytherin like judging them too much for what they're doing. Do you know what I mean? Or, yeah, gosh, I don't know. It's really hard. Now you've got me. You've got me like questioned, like like my whole life dear about it.
Caily:1:01:13
Okay. So when you say that the Slytherin wouldn't judge other people's decisions, I think so. He does stand up to his father, right, but I feel like that's because he has personal interest in Catherine and his father's attacking Catherine. But when it comes to his brother and Isabella, he kind of just sits back and observes it in sort of a detached way, and I feel like he's talking to Catherine as if, yep, they're, they're doing it, they're gonna do what they're gonna do. He doesn't really like acting, get involved when it doesn't really relate to him, if you know what I mean.
Izzy:1:01:53
That's so true. No, no, I totally, yeah, I can totally see that that's so true. Like he like Catherine's, just like why don't you go and speak to your brother about it? And he's like you know, I'm not gonna get involved. Like he can do what he wants. And if Isabella is going to be like stupid enough to get to get involved with him, then that's not my problem, kind of thing. So, yeah, I can definitely see that like he just sits back. But then also that just feel really Ravenclaw to me as well, like not wanting to go to the confrontation, just be like I'm just gonna sit here and just let it happen. And I feel like Ravenclaw is a really like high on morals. The fact that he thinks it's wrong but doesn't do anything about it. I feel like that's also quite Ravenclaw, Like he's like you know, I have my own moral standards and they don't fit into them, but I'm also not gonna go and confront them about it Also feels kind of Ravenclaw to me.
Caily:1:02:34
Yeah, I mean he. I'm glad we found a tried and true Ravenclaw, I think you know?
Izzy:1:02:40
yeah, I'm sorry, go on school gone.
Caily:1:02:44
Oh, no, no, no, I was just gonna say I don't. He's the first hero that we've placed in Ravenclaw as Ravenclaw as a primary house, right?
Izzy:1:02:56
Oh my gosh mate. Oh, no, no, we put Mr Knightley as Ravenclaw.
Caily:1:03:02
You did, or did we put him, as I've blocked it out, okay, yeah.
Izzy:1:03:10
Well, maybe we don't even do you want to hear oh, go ahead. Yeah, I'm sorry, so you do you want to hear what I put is the secondary house? Yes, I did so I pay. Secondary house is Gryffindor. I feel like you're like what, no?
Caily:1:03:26
I don't see that, but again I didn't. Yeah, tell me, we'll see if you convince me.
Izzy:1:03:32
Okay. So the reason that I put Gryffindor down is, even though he's really like, really rational throughout the whole book, I feel like at the end of the book he makes like totally like crazy decisions and just kind of goes off off the rails a little bit, but for what he thinks is right. You know he really wants to stand up for Catherine. He's got to do what he thinks is right. And when he just like leaves his dad and his dad's like I'm going to disinherit you and he doesn't care and he just like rides off to go and visit like Catherine, I just think that's so impulsive and I just think that's like very much like Gryffindor's, like he doesn't care that he's going to be like car forever. I really think he says to Catherine, like I might not have any money, but you know, at least I came and checked on you. I just feel like that's so, gryffindor, to do that, to just like in the moment, just like jump on your horse and like go like not thinking about the later consequences.
Caily:1:04:26
Yeah, that that decision was. Yeah, that's, I didn't even think about that. Yeah, that decision was very rash, that he just jumps on the horse and just goes. Okay, what? Why else do you think he's a Gryffindor?
Izzy:1:04:44
That's me. I feel like you all keep Slytherin's too much.
Caily:1:04:49
No, what's nothing with me was I was I didn't consider Gryffindor at all. I was like no to Gryffindor is like it's either Slytherin or Hufflepuff. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know, it's see again, I think it was really good that you said at the beginning that all of these houses have overlap, because what you just said about Gryffindor I think I was thinking of that in a Hufflepuff way, right, like that commitment to honor and what you think, and yeah.
Izzy:1:05:26
So See, this is why I mean, this is why it's so tough, because the more you think about the houses, the more crossover you see, and it's so difficult to then place people because it's like unless they have standout characteristics, like we see for his, you know, primary house of Ravenclaw, like he stands out as a Ravenclaw because he's, you know, driven by books, he loves books, that's his passion, he loves to talk about books with other people and, yeah, you can, you can really see the Ravenclaw Ravenclaw dynamic with Catherine. It's hard for a secondary one because he doesn't have any standout qualities of any of the other houses and so I do think he's that's because he's majority Ravenclaw. And then a little bit something I could be convinced of Slytherin. I really could, because I don't feel my Gryffindor ones necessarily that that strong, but I'm not sure I. Maybe we should just go 100% Ravenclaw.
Caily:1:06:17
I'd be down for that. Yeah, I mean one thing. One last thing. I'm sure one of us said this, but that I love how witty he is. He has the witty Mr Bennett Ravenclaw characteristic, so I'd be okay. I'd be okay keeping him, you know, keeping him fully Ravenclaw, and then I'd keep a tiny little sliver of Slytherin. He sees the evil traits in other people.
Izzy:1:06:48
I love it. Okay, amazing, that is literally everybody on the list. We've covered all of the heroes.
Caily:1:06:54
That's everybody done so exciting. It was so much fun to sort both the heroines and heroes and think about how their different houses compliment each other too.
Izzy:1:07:05
I know, but then also part of who's like, please nobody hold us to this, because I feel like it's so easy to develop your thoughts and like come with different ideas later. I feel like I feel like we could totally like do this again, like in a year's time, and have different thoughts, at least on some people.
Caily:1:07:23
Definitely, and I think that's reflected too. I think there were certain stances we took that we were really passionate about, and then others, we could see, multiple perspectives. So yeah, yeah, I totally agree. I'm sure a year from now my mind will change on some of these.
Izzy:1:07:41
I would love to hear everyone else's thoughts as well. So, you know, let us know over on Instagram what your thoughts are, or if you're part of the Patreon, of course, we'll definitely be opening up conversations about this. So, 100%, we want to hear your thoughts on this. What houses do you think we'll be in? And if there's any, like blog posts that I was reading when researching this, I'll obviously pop those in the bio. But, kaylee, do you want to let everybody know where they can find you other than on the Patreon?
Caily:1:08:05
Yes, I'm on the Patreon and my Instagram handle is at half underscore agony underscore half underscore hope. So, yeah, I just collect literature quotations there, mostly Jane Austen and some other authors, so I would love to connect with you there.
Izzy:1:08:27
Amazing. That is everything from us today, and I will see you in another episode.