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Episode 23: Disney Villains x Persuasion Villains with Ann from @paperheartslibary

Welcome to the twenty third episode of the What the Austen? podcast! I'm your host Izzy, and I am joined by my friend and fellow Janeite Ann from @paper.hearts.library. We are back and today we are covering the villains in Jane Austen's Persuasion and comparing them against Disney Villains.

Don't miss out on our other episodes:

Pride and Prejudice villains (Ep 15)

Sense and Sensibility (Ep 18)

Disney Princesses x Austen's Heroine (Ep 8)

This podcast is about Janeites coming together, discussing Jane Austen's work, and having a few laughs along the way.

We really enjoyed making this episode and we hope you like it.

Next in this series we will be covering Northanger Abbey (ep 24)

Further Reading:

Jane Austen Runs my life Blog: Waiter there's some Disney to my Jane Austen

Where can you find Ann?



PrincessLessons YouTube Channel Where can you find your host (Izzy)? Website: Podcast Instagram: @whattheausten Personal Instagram: @izzymeakin Youtube: What the Austen? Podcast Please follow and subscribe to keep up with all the upcoming episodes.

Audible | 30 day free trial Izzy's recommendation: The Jane Austen Collection: An Audible Original Drama


Izzy Meakin 00:00

Hi Janeites If you're listening, please follow and subscribe. It really helps to grow the podcast and for me to bring you more episodes Hi, Janeites and welcome to episode 23 of the what the Austen podcast we're continuing on our Disney villain journey. And I knew we still have a couple of weeks off for the Halloween content, but we're back and we're ready to go. And today's episode is all going to be about persuasion villains and comparing them against the Disney Villains. First character I have in the list of persuasion is Walter Elliot. I'll let you go fast. Whoo hoo. Have you got for this

Ann 00:55

one? I have several. So do you want me to go through all of them? Or you want me to just go through one and you go through one. Do you have several?

Izzy Meakin 01:00

I have several you go through all of yours. Yeah. And then I'll do all of mine.

Ann 01:04

Okay, sounds good. Okay, so my first one is Prince John from Robin Hood. Because both Sir Walter and Prince John. They love Mears and money and status. There's I really like the mirror illusion. It's been a while since I've watched Robin Hood. But I know that there's a big thing where he likes to look at himself in the mirror. He likes all his jewels. And he definitely looks down on anybody who doesn't have any money. He treats other people poorly. I just and they're just obsessed with status. So I really liked that. And they're both kind of spoiled brats. They're almost like children at the end of the day, even though they're supposed to be these powerful men. So I liked that connection with that. And then I have another one. If you want me to join, you go with that one, too.

Izzy Meakin 01:52

So actually, I will say because I already had that one on my list. And you basically said everything. I think that's honest. Oh, no, no, I think that's such a perfect match. So that's the thing like Prince John reminds Yeah, so also Alia, I think is that one need for power, but also that like cowardice and the fact that they're just, you know, crying about things and they just love money. And I think Prince John is actually the most hilarious Disney villain. I think he's just so funny. Because he's just like, not really got that much going on with him. But he's also really funny. He's actually like a scene where he literally keeps, he keeps getting Pow, pow, pow, pow. And I feel like that's what we say will tell you what to do. And looking in the mirror, like he said, just obsessing about himself. Yeah,

Ann 02:32

they're both completely narcissistic, but completely idiotic at the same time. They're not that bright. So on that note, I think also I thought of ease mama from the Emperor's New Groove, because she's obsessed with her great regaining status after losing status. And he's kind of obsessed with regaining it as though he's kind of losing Kelly Lynch Hall. But also she's more of a ridiculous and funny villain like Sir Walter, kind of going along with the Prince John thing. I think she's one of the funniest villains too. And they both take themselves so seriously, but they're both so idiotic from the outside. And then she blames a poor man for not having food by telling him he should have thought about that before becoming a peasant. And I was just like, that is absolutely like Sir Walter Elliot would do the same thing like or blame someone like for being like, not up to his standards of beauty and be like, You should have thought of that before you were born or something.

Izzy Meakin 03:32

Oh my gosh, when she says that that is like one of the funniest scenes I swear.

Ann 03:35

It should just have a workout Lopez I just like he would say that. And then it also this kind of goes in with Elizabeth which will save for later but it makes me laugh thinking of Sir Elliot telling Elizabeth pull the lever Cronk while trying to get her to manipulate Mr. Elliot into marriage.

Izzy Meakin 03:53

Oh my gosh, that's so funny. Actually is so true. I did not I did not put her on my list because like I might, but that's such a perfect one. I love that.

Ann 04:05

So yeah, those are that's my assaulter Ellie I just really like picturing him as easemon Especially like that scene where she's so upset with the parent they're like at a restaurant and they do this like little party thing with the mariachi band or something like that. I don't know. It just made me laugh picturing Sir Walter and like all these ridiculous circumstances.

Izzy Meakin 04:25

Oh my gosh, again, we need like to do some kind of remix. I swear to god, that was so funny.

Ann 04:30

Oh my gosh. And I feel like she thinks her like style is so great with like, that feathery thing that she's wearing around her neck and she just like she thinks she's so great. And I could just picture Sir Walter like wearing all these idiotic outfits that he thinks are so stylish and grey, but they probably look a little silly, especially for his age or something like wearing things that like 20 year old men are wearing.

Izzy Meakin 04:50

Oh my gosh, no, I love that. That's, that's awesome. Honestly, I really like that. So was that all of yours for that one? Yes. So Who are yours? I'm excited. So I had two others after Prince John for so well to Ali M. And the next one that I had was Captain Hook. So I feel like Captain Hook and Prince John are quite similar in their like personalities. So Captain Hook is emotionally vulnerable and self centred eccentric stuck in the past, which I think is really similar to Stillwater, Eliot, he's really stuck in the past. Like, I feel like there's a scene in the book where he or at least they talk about the fact that he constantly looks over his family history. And he's just is really weird about that, just because he's trying to hold on to what it was. But obviously, yeah, it's all going downhill at this point. And I thought that Captain Hook's obsession with Peter Pan is really similar to so Walter Elliot's obsession with keeping up appearances, like it's almost all consuming, and they kind of lose reason on trying to pursue this obsession. And I just thought that was really similar. And I also thought it was what's kind of ironic in this comparison is that so Walter? Elliot hates like naval officers and like the Navy and ships and things. And actually Captain Hook lives on one. So I just thought that was kind of ironic. They could be this comparison, but I still see the links I.

Ann 06:18

Yeah, I love that he would hate it. And that's what's great is he would hate to compare some, but it's so good and even Smee you could kind of say, has that Elizabeth thing, you know, because it's like everybody. A lot of these Disney villains have these little lackeys. And that's exactly what Sir Walter Elliot does. He has a little lackey that agrees with him on everything.

Izzy Meakin 06:38

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. That's so true. And then I just had one more on the list. And that was governor Ratcliffe from her contest. So this was more one on appearance, because when I thought when I looked like Governor Ratcliffe and I looked at, well, I kind of thought about what I would perceive. So Walter Elliot to look like, I thought we'd have like a similar look about them. Yeah, a little bit pompous, thinking that that all that and Governor Ratcliffe, he kind of thrives on the power that he's been given from the crown and things and that's why he thinks he's, you know, should be able to go over and like colonise America, and everything. And he's just like, really not a nice guy. But I just think so Walter Elliot would do the same thing in the same position, like that feeling of superiority, that things are rightfully his because he thinks he's got position and status. And so Walter Elliot is very much like that. He thinks that he's entitled to things because he's from older money. And he's kind of thought, well, Elliot is is quite a prominent name in his society and things. So yeah, I just found that they were quite similar as well.

Ann 07:40

While and he's given his title by the Crown, too. So he's given some sort of special privileges from the crown. Not exactly the same, but similar.

Izzy Meakin 07:48

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Again, really funny though, because he, Governor Ratcliffe obviously has to go on ships and things as well, which is just hilarious. So yeah, is he just sort of Elliott hate ships, he thinks that it ages you or makes you will dishevelled and oblique.

Ann 08:03

He's absolutely hysterical. In going back to what you were saying about him being obsessed with the past, that's so true. Because the novel actually opens with him looking through the period, like that's the first part of the novel. So kind of sets the tone right away,

Izzy Meakin 08:15

literally, literally in it's just that he's like, trying to hold on to everything that he's, he's going to lose. And, I mean, that obviously speaks to the time because that wasn't an uncommon situation for people of like, all money to start losing their properties and money and, you know, people in trade started to take over and like the people actually had the money and things. So I'm sure there was a lot of so we'll tell you, it's about the time.

Ann 08:40

Yeah, how scandalous to work for a living.

Izzy Meakin 08:43

I know. I know. Hilarious, right. Okay, great. So the next one I have on my list, for persuasion is a list of birth, which I think kind of links back to what we were saying about symbols, Elliot, because they're so close in the way they behave. But do you have any one in particular on your list for Elizabeth?

Ann 09:01

Yeah, I paired I paired Yzma. And Kronk lists are Walter Elliot and Elizabeth, because I think that Kronk is hapless he's attractive though. He's right hand person for the main villain and also not very bright. So that's pretty much Elizabeth like she's attractive. She's not very bright. She's kind of hapless and everything that she does. So she's and it's, it's weird. Like they have a creepy relationship. Like, I don't think there's anything like weird or incestuous going on like, with Sir Walter Elliot and Elizabeth or anything like that, but they still have a weird relationship in the fact that she kind of plays that societal role of being, like, the right hand woman to Sir Walter Elliot and kind of like Lady, Lady Elliot, basically. So I think that's kind of interesting too, because Kronk and ease might have like a thing and even though like I don't want to, like gross anyone out because I don't think there's anything going on there with persuasion, but I still feel like it's A similar kind of like stooge and like higher up kind of person relationship. No, I

Izzy Meakin 10:05

agree. And I feel like if you read persuasion and you didn't know that much about the story, it might actually be easy to actually think that Elizabeth is so Elliot's wife like that. She's Mrs. Elliott. Yeah, I feel like that would be easy to do because they are. I think one because they're so similar and it makes you think like, it also because she's so different on which I respond to difficult to like comprehends the answer different not only to Elizabeth, but Mary. And I'm just like, where did it come from? Why did this like, you know, I mean, the nice like, you know, amazing however, in the we have,

Ann 10:39

I felt like she had more of Lady Russell's influence. That's kind of what I get from it. And the other two were not really that interested in anything that lady Russell had to say. So I kind of think of her as almost like Lady Russell's adopted daughter, because I think they have, they have a little bit in common and it's kind of in that lady Russell has the controlling mother kind of relationship to and and so and kind of develops that personality that you would think of as someone who would have a controlling mother because she's docile, she's sweet. She's like, listen to what other people say that kind of thing. So that's how that's how I rationalised her personality difference.

Izzy Meakin 11:16

I love that and that's really good. I like that. Did you have anyone else on for Elizabeth, would you want me to say a couple?

Ann 11:23

No, no. Just Kronk. Because it made me laugh.

Izzy Meakin 11:26

Yeah, that's absolutely. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. I feel like Elizabeth is quite hard because I feel like we don't get to know her enough. Kind of Lincoln how she is was so well, to Alia, I put Iago I think that's how you say isn't that?

Ann 11:42

Great? Yeah. I love that.

Izzy Meakin 11:45

Iago if you don't know is the basically the parrot that I believe is a parrot is some kind of bird. Yeah, that follows Jafar around and he's like, always on his shoulder. And he's basically a mirror of his master. And I feel like that's very similar to Elizabeth, she very much mirrors her father. They have like the same thoughts on things. And she pretty much like loses like her own personality. But she's also got this like, impeach, she's very impatient, and will just like say, just like, you know, comments, nasty comments, and like, talks about behind her back, that kind of thing. So I thought it's very similar to Iago. He's a little bit like that. He's just like, a little bit, too, you know, just with me. And I feel like Elizabeth, as well.

Ann 12:28

Well, it's just like the metaphorical phrase that people say that so and so's parroting so and so I mean, it's a literal, you know, parrot, and she's, she's always parroting her father, whatever he says, or whatever he thinks. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. 100%. And she's snarky. She's like, she's snarky, like the like, Iago I love that. That's a great one. I never would have thought of that one.

Izzy Meakin 12:48

Right. Thanks. And then I just had one more on and that was actually matching up Elizabeth and Miss clay, Who's the woman that comes and stays with them? Who's got the money that so well, Sally is thinking of Mary and that kind of thing. Elizabeth and has spent a lot of time together. They're almost like they're kind of joined at the hip. And I thought that's really similar to the way that like the wicked stepsisters in Cinderella, and they kind of have that same kind of vibe. And also, I think it's kind of funny, because it's a bit like Elizabeth feels like shunned because she thinks she's gonna get Mr. Elliott and not to be confused. Yeah, Father, that's actually like that, because then who's going to inherit things? She thinks she's gonna get Mr. Elliott, but then he wants on instead. And I just think that's similar to the sisters been like I once gave you the prince for them. The prince wants Cinderella. So obviously, Mr. Alia isn't the prince but the point is like it's that it's kind of like being second fiddle or it but thinking you're not like thinking you're like number one all the time. But then actually, people are like, No,

Ann 13:53

I don't. Exactly. Well, I mean, he is kind of like he's going to inherit so he has that. That Prince Charming thing on the surface until you until you read the book a little further. I remember when I first read it being a little bit like which way is he going to go? Because I kind of thought, well, maybe he's just going to be a nice guy, who, you know, and just chooses not to end up with but yeah, he's he's a pulled a causal Wickham, you go first. Who

Izzy Meakin 14:20

do you have on the list for Mr. Elliott?

Ann 14:23

I have Hadees from Hercules because he is a suave and sophisticated and smooth talker and he is remorseless. I feel like Mr. Elliott is definitely remorseless. He does not care what he's done to anyone. I feel as if Oh, he wants to overthrow his family member like Sir Walter Elliot. Sorry, let me say that again. He wants to overthrow his family member, Sir Walter Elliot, like Hades wants to overthrow the gods and Zeus. So I felt like there were some good connections there.

Izzy Meakin 14:53

That's such a good one. I didn't have that on the list and you I really wanted Hades to be a match that I could make, and I didn't manage it. But I actually think that's such a good one.

Ann 15:03

Well, thank you. He was hard. Mr. Elliot was definitely difficult I feel like to pin down so but that was the one that I thought it was a little bit out of the box and it was like I can see that especially with the overthrowing the family member thing. Yes, and being sort of a lesser family member who's trying to overthrow the current gods like the, like Hades is trying to do as Zeus.

Izzy Meakin 15:23

And so when he's kind of being out of the picture, that's a little bit like Hades, like he's in the underworld, he's kind of out of the picture. And that's the same as Mr. Ali like everybody's he kind of married this with a woman didn t and they might have died or something. And then he pops back on the scene, and they're all like, Oh, he's back like, but nobody healing him for a while.

Ann 15:41

He married that woman for her money. And I think we didn't even had some sort of scheme with that Mrs. Smith or something with trying to go to law school or something like that. So in a way you could, there's all these metaphorical things. It's a metaphorical underworld, even though it isn't the real underworld.

Izzy Meakin 15:58

Yeah, I think it's been a while since I like reread persuasion, but it's definitely something to definitely maybe even be like Miss Smith Miss sniffs like fiance like the person she's engaged to or something like that. And like he does like some sort of weird scam with like him. Or some money or something. Yeah, absolutely. And she's like, he's a bad guy.

Ann 16:15

I think he scammed some money to go to some sort of law school like I may be wrong because it's been a while since I've read it too but I know that there's something with law school and there's something with a scam with with Mrs. Smith trying to get money

Izzy Meakin 16:28

in that and she also knows about the scam that he's trying to pull where he like marries um, but then also has Elizabeth only miss Mrs. Clay is Miss clay is his mistress and yeah, Miss Smith is she knows what's going on Okay. In the town. She's like me like she says like, it's like a servant or a maid tells her or something. And she's like, made smooth everything.

Ann 16:47

Yeah, exactly. I isn't Miss Smith. It is Miss Smith. I was calling her Mrs. Miss. She didn't actually get married. Did she? Oh, maybe is Mrs. Smith.

Izzy Meakin 16:55

Maybe our partner died? I don't know. I think I probably would have died like the partner. Like knew about Elliott's true nature. I think he died because she's a widow. I'm pretty sure and then sold. Elliott's like why are you going to visit Miss Swan call with the second name Smith. And he's like, makes a big deal out of it. Because he's a bit of a weirdo. I'm sorry. I diverge. What was your What was your next one from his Elliot? If you haven't? I don't

Ann 17:16

have another one. That was that was my main one for him. He was hard to pin down.

Izzy Meakin 17:21

Yeah, he's a he's a tough one. He's a tough one. I feel like we don't know enough about him, I think is the the main thing. So the people that I had on was Judge Foley was my first one. And that's just because he tries to make Esmerelda his like mistress and obviously Mr. Alia has this whole plan of like having a mistress and things and kind of this like lack of respect for women in the sense that he's just by adding on his wife and mistress as well. And, you know, he just does his own thing and doesn't even like think about this stuff. The next one I had on the list, like I just have like small comments, but I have a few for him was scar and that was very similar to your ideas about Hades, that lack loyalty to family. You know, hiding away until the right moments and the fact that he's like, you know, pretty probably pretty happily like kill off sold earlier if he like a chance to. And I feel like he has this like constant pursuit of money, which I don't think you can see with Scott, because obviously he's like a lion and doesn't need money. But, but I feel like you can see that with Dr. Facilier. So for those, like another length, like that constant pursuit of money, and you're kind of working in the shadows. And yeah, I feel like I put like a lot of like little comments. And I just think he he makes up a villain when you add all these little nuance things together. Yeah. And it's just this if he doesn't have the opportunity in the novel to actually like me, because villainous schemes coming about, if that makes sense.

Ann 18:56

Yeah. And I feel like it all just goes back to again, and not really being interested in him. I think she's flattered by the fact that, you know, that he thinks that she's attractive, but that's about it. And so, I think that it kind of just takes his power away because there's no real threat because we're not ever really that concern and it's going to fall for him.

Izzy Meakin 19:17

Yeah, I agree. 100% Yeah. Okay, everybody on the list of persuasion, I believe. Do you have any other comments you want to make or anyone else? No, that is it. We hope you've enjoyed this and here's a sneak peek of what is yet to come. This is actually the final instalment of the Disney villain times Austen villain journey. In this episode, we are going to be covering Northanger Abbey

Ann 19:41

Frollo because I think that there's a little bit of a sinister Gothic thing. So

Izzy Meakin 19:46

honest, John and Gideon together is so like Isabella and John.

Ann 19:50

I just love the way awesome does this I mean, she shows that a real person might be more scary than like a gothic villain character. That same guy So good. That is like one of my favourite ones that you've done so far

Izzy Meakin 20:03

head over to my Instagram I will be Austen for all the updates and for all the fans info that will be in the bio. So go ahead and check all of her content out. Her YouTube stuff is great and also on Instagram as well. So I will see you in the next episode.

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