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Episode 20: Disney Villains x Emma Villains with Ann from @paperheartslibary

Welcome to the twentieth episode of the What the Austen? podcast! I'm your host Izzy, and I am joined by my friend and fellow Janeite Ann from @disneyprincesslessons and @paper.hearts.library. We are back and today we are covering the villains in Jane Austen's Emma and comparing them against Disney Villains. Don't miss out on our other episodes: Pride and Prejudice villains (Ep 15) Sense and Sensibility (Ep 18) Disney Princesses x Jane Austen Heroine (Ep 8) This podcast is about Janeites coming together, discussing Jane Austen's work, and having a few laughs along the way. We really enjoyed making this episode and we hope you like it. Next in this series we will be covering Persuasion (ep 23) Further Reading: Disney Wiki Villains | Fandom Jane Austen Runs my life Blog: Waiter there's some Disney to my Jane Austen The Disney Book of Maps Where can you find Ann? @paper.hearts.library @disneyprincesslessons PrincessLessons YouTube Channel Where can you find your host (Izzy)? Website: Podcast Instagram: @whattheausten Personal Instagram: @izzymeakin Youtube: What the Austen? Podcast Please follow and subscribe to keep up with all the upcoming episodes.

Audible | 30 day free trial Izzy's recommendation: The Jane Austen Collection: An Audible Original Drama


Izzy Meakin 00:00

Hi janeites If you're listening please follow and subscribe. It really helps to grow the podcast and for me to bring you more episodes

Izzy Meakin 00:24

Hi, J knights and welcome to episode 20 of the what the Austen podcast. Myself and Anna are back and we're continuing our Disney villain times Austen villain journey. We've already covered three novels so far we focused on Pride and Prejudice Mansfield Park and since sensibility and it was really fun actually, we had some like really, like we had the ones that were like a little bit more obvious like a guest on and wicker match. But then we also have like more nuanced ones, which I thought were really good as well. And we were both kind of able to surprise each other. Did you have a favourite mug?

Ann 00:57

I think mine actually goes along with that it was the ringmaster from Dumbo and Sir Thomas Bertram, I just felt like that was when I made that connection. It kind of blew my own mind kind of thinking like, wow, there's a lot of similarities there even though it just didn't seem obvious at all on the surface. So that was a lot of fun.

Izzy Meakin 01:16

Oh, my gosh, I actually looked at the one that's actually so cool. I think one of the ones that I thought was really good as well. I believe you made this one it was between Mrs. Norris from Huntsville, Park, and I can't remember your name, but on something and lady in the tramp. Oh, yes. Sara? Yes. In uncertain how she like forms over the cats. And it's really similar to how Mrs. Norris forms over Mariah and Julia. And I was like, wow, I actually think that's it, maybe even a stronger match than Lady Tremaine and Mrs. Doris because I was like, there is so many similarities there. And Mrs. Norris is really realistically should be on the sidelines. Like she shouldn't be like such a significant person in the, in the grand scheme of things because she's like, just like a relative who's come to stay forever. And that's the kind of the same as answerer, like it's someone that shouldn't be significant. Who has such such such an opinion of themselves that they are that they kind of infiltrate the story?

Ann 02:22

Yeah, exactly. That's interesting. What was the favourite one, though, that you came up with, from from yours?

Izzy Meakin 02:28

So I think my favourite match that I made was Mr. Collins, and the Duke of Wesselton from France.

Ann 02:36

I love that that was a really good one.

Izzy Meakin 02:39

Yeah, absolutely. So the novel we'll be covering today is Emma, and I'm looking forward to hearing your matches for this one. I definitely picked some really interesting exciting traces this time. So yeah, I'm really excited to tell you Okay, so the first one on my list for Anna is Mr. Elton. So Mr. Elton is I think a lot of people are like are familiar with ama but just in case you're not myself and is the vicar in the village. He is Who am I originally believes that how are you going to marry and she thinks they're in love, but it actually turns out Mr. Elton was always interested in Emma. And Thoreau is one of those really awkward proposals after where she's gotten things for you in love with Harriet. He then goes on to marry someone who's awful Mrs. Elton. And yeah, he all around turns out to be not such a nice guy like at the start. He's quite charming. And I think that's why I'm a thing so we have a great match for Harriet. But then when he doesn't get Emma who was in fact, his intended, he turns pretty nasty.

Ann 03:44

Yeah, definitely. Cool. Anima Villar. Yeah, he's definitely a villain. I definitely think he's a villain. He's really mean about Harriet to like, just how callous he is about her because she isn't good enough for him. And it's just like, and just the way that he pretends to be so nice to her because he thinks that she's Emma's friend, and an old gained him points with Emma. And you're just like, wow, like, it's not even that he didn't like Harriet, like he literally could care less if, you know, she was killed by those chips season has seen you know, it's like he could really care less if anything happens to her because she was just a means to an end. That's

Izzy Meakin 04:21

awful. I have I'd love to hear your Disney villain comparisons for Mr. Nelson. Well, I

Ann 04:27

feel like the obvious one for him is Hans, but I feel like I want to use Hans for a lot. So I actually kind of focused on one that I saw was Mr. And Mrs. Elton sort of together. I really liked the the evil queen in the magic mirror. So I guess it's actually two characters. So it's sort of like two characters that go together. Because they're both really vain and obsessed with being better than Emma and the queen is of vain and obsessed with being better than Snow White and I feel like Mrs. Elton is kind of like by the evil queen, and Mr. Elton is the magic mirror who reflects back to her, you know, like I've chosen this wonderful wife and you are the most beautiful, you're the fairest of all. You're more fair than Emma, even though that's not true. So I thought that that kind of work does a really good duo together.

Izzy Meakin 05:17

Ah, I love that. That's good. Oh my gosh, well, were you to kick things off that's obviously awesome. I do not have that on my list because that's really okay.

Ann 05:28

That's pretty much my main one on the list because I just liked it together so well I like I could see the whole Hans thing I definitely think that works. There's probably probably some others that work but I just think you think of Mr. Only and Mrs. Elton as a duo, you know, as a set. They're always travelling around together and you think of the Evil Queen in her magic mirror together. So I definitely think I definitely think while Mrs. Ellen isn't doing anything as evil as the evil queen are like trying to kill Emma, she's trying to kill Emma's reputation in a way by Glenn of like taking it over to be the lady of the village that everybody adores the most. Just kind of like the queen wants to be the most adored compared to Snow White. And so just a little things that she does to undermine her it's sort of this sneaky equivalent to baking an apple pie to poison her because she tries to be really nice to her and sweet and like pretend to be this like, really great person or maybe even I can't remember if she ever needs her help, but or pretends to need her help. But she definitely is always there trying to sneakily put sugar metaphorically on everything to make it seem like she's a good person, but

Izzy Meakin 06:38

she's not. I know. I feel like the closest to that is when she's like saying to me, she's like, we should start this music club together as leaders of society. We should like do that. Yeah. And I was just that like, Please, please. No, I didn't want you in my life. Oh my god.

Ann 06:51

What am I favourite parts of the whole book is when she keeps calling Mrs. Ellen keeps calling Mr. knightly knightly. And then Emma is so upset about it. Like just the way Emma has like kind of ramble in her head that Jane Austen let's see. It's just that's probably one of my favourite books in the entire art not favourite books, favourite parts in the entire novel.

Izzy Meakin 07:12

No, I totally agree when she's like, knightly, knightly knightly like she has a nursing that's honestly obviously gold dust. I feel like that's actually such a good way to show Mrs. Elton's character and what she is because she is that person that would think actually I'm this person in society I can be over familiar with people because I think I'm at the same level as them and the rest of us are like, you know, at the same level as Miss Denali friend like no, please no, settle down. But it's so funny because she just has that perception of herself. And I think like what you were saying about the queen as well is the queen. Kind of tries too hard. And I think that's the same as Mrs. Elton. Like they try too hard to be something that they're not in it shows.

Ann 07:56

Yeah, exactly. And well, Emma is not in any way like Snow White. I still think the dynamic is very similar. Yes.

Izzy Meakin 08:05

I love that one, though. I

Ann 08:07

would love to see a showdown between Emma and the evil queen because Emma would not stand for it at all. She would not eat that pie.

Izzy Meakin 08:15

Oh my gosh, like can you imagine? Like, I'm sorry, I can't eat this. She'd be like, she'd be like me. I can't eat gluten. I'm sorry. Please, can you take that fine? Or do you tend to wear an apple? She'd be like, I'm sorry, I only take the green like kind. This is Rachel. I'm cotton top this I'm sorry.

Ann 08:29

Exactly. would probably give the pie to someone else who was poor thinking she was doing a good thing and like feel really good about herself. And then like the person would die and she'd be like, What am I? Oh my gosh,

Izzy Meakin 08:44

yeah, literally, that would happen. That's so funny. I'm like, we need to do

Ann 08:48

Jane Austen, Disney mashup fanfiction where we just rewrite all of the stories and talk about how they would go a little bit differently and certain characters were in and then

Izzy Meakin 09:01

oh my gosh, would that be so funny, honestly kills me. Did you have anyone else when you're less than I did

Ann 09:06

not know? Because that was that was that was my main one that I came up with?

Izzy Meakin 09:11

Newari so I took a slightly different approach. I did keep them separate. So but I do agree there's like those people that come up quite a lot like Hans and I've got guests on on my list for Mr. Elton. So I'll just say like, I generally just put them on list because the the fact that he's vain, he assumes Ballard want to marry him despite no encouragement, very similar to Mr. Elton assuming that Emma would be interested in him, which makes no sense whatsoever, but there we go. And so that was just like a briefing. I was like I really wanted to bring that in. But my closer connection that I got was Lawrence from Princess in the frog. Oh, if you don't know who Lauren says from Princess in the frog because he is a little bit more of an obscure character and can be forgettable in many ways. But he is Basically he starts out as Prince Naveen servant. And he's kind of a little bit on the chubby side. And he kind of resents the fact that he is a servant. And so when Dr. faciliated comes in with all his voodoo magic, and he's like, I'm gonna give everybody what they want. He kind of jumps at it. And he actually ends up turning into Prince movie and Prince Debian turns into a frog. So

Ann 10:24

it's so good. This is so good. So

Izzy Meakin 10:27

I thought he was quite similar to Mr. Elton in the sense that they will go to great lengths for money and status. He's a little bit slimy and pompous little bit like Mr. Elton, and he thinks he deserves the best of things. And I think that's very much Lawrence like he believes like, he's envious, not jealous of Prince Naveen. He believes that he deserves it more than him. And I think that's pretty much like a Mr. Elton thing. Like he thinks he's, he deserves power status, wealth. And also I thought another connection as well would be that he wants to marry a rich young lady and obviously in princess in the frog, he wants to marry Charlotte. And that's very much like Mr. Elton wanting to marry me because Charlotte it's like the daughter of like, the richest person in New Orleans and CASS Yeah. And he's like, he thinks, oh, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna do this. Obviously, he has to put on a bit of a facade. So he asked to turn into Prince Naveen and Mr. Elton in the same way has to put on this facade of actually being a nice person when it turns out he really isn't. So I thought that was like a connection over there. I was like, Yeah, I can kind of see them being like a little bit. A little bit similar. So yeah, Lawrence was on my list for Mr. Elton.

Ann 11:36

I love that. I really, really liked that. I didn't think of that one at all. I think it fits perfectly. And I also think that it even fits with Charlotte and Mrs. Elton. Even though Charlotte is really really sweet. They're both kind of over the top and silly and you know, have big personalities too.

Izzy Meakin 11:55

Yes, that's so true. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, absolutely. And also a little bit materialistic. Like, I actually love Charlotte's as a character. And I really wish she had like a spin off where she gets her happy ending. But I agree they've got like, kind of some similarities there as well, which is, yeah, that's really cool. I like that. And then I did have one more on the list for Mr. Elton. And that was furlough from Hunchback of Notre DOM. Now I don't in any way see Mr. Elton as severe as him because this guy is nasty. So he's the like an evil like priests, Disney, who like wants to get rid of like a certain set of people in society because he believes he's better than them. And I just thought that is very similar to the way that Mr. Elton behaves towards Harriet that that assumption that he's so much better than her that it's actually discussed into in the end, I would even think of them being together and the way that he kind of shuns are in society rejecting the dance with her and things. Just makes me think he has that kind of arrogance and prejudice against people.

Ann 13:00

I really like that. Yeah. I see that a lot.

Izzy Meakin 13:03

Yeah, I think that's it definitely

Ann 13:05

is Enter Bills, clergy members, members of the clergy.

Izzy Meakin 13:09

Yes. Oh, my gosh, I didn't even meet yet.

Ann 13:16

I think it's like, you know, Anglican and Roman Catholic, but so close. I think it's so interesting with Jane Austen's father being a clergy member, but I feel like, and from what I understand, Jane Austen was fairly religious. But I think that she had a very clear view of what was actually sticking to the principles of her beliefs. And she really saw all of the fake people, the people who are pretending and I love how she brings that out. I mean, it's just it's not even just in the clergy. It's with everything, what she does so beautifully, that she can say that, you know, there are really good people who maybe have this quality like Elizabeth Bennett versus Mary Crawford. You know, you can be sassy and you can kind of like not care about the rules where one person can have more of a good heart and one person not and I love how she does that, you know, with everything we've got Mr. Collins, I just think it's so interesting, though, because her father was a clergy member, how many priests or ministers she's always scoring, but I think that she probably just saw a lot of maybe, I don't know, maybe he knew other clergy members, but I would just imagine she saw a lot of people being fake.

Izzy Meakin 14:22

Yes. And you know, you're not actually the first person to say this, like other people always seem to sit there and religiously, just like you. I do believe she didn't hate to follow like, I've never read anywhere that she It seems she had a pretty good relationship for them. So yeah, I think I think you're right. I think she just uses it as like a reflection of like human nature and the way that people can use friends to try and cover up like, who they really are. I think she's so good at doing that. Just showing like, actually, what's on the surface level isn't necessarily people's true characters, but their true character will come out and they will kind of be able to do the sense and they weren't when

Ann 14:58

well, and I read something about Now that you know her father, I've read multiple Jane Austen biographies. And they always mentioned about her father really cared about education for women. And it sounds like he was very forward thinking. So it sounds like while he was a member of the clergy, maybe he had some progressive ideas. And Jane Austen had some progressive ideas, because I just found this out recently. I didn't know this, but she actually wrote a whole bunch of prayers and you can actually get like a book of her prayers. And I had no idea she even wrote things like that. But so I feel like she must have had some. I think she was probably kind of critiquing, I guess from within probably the hypocrisy that she saw. But I just I think that's fascinating.

Izzy Meakin 15:34

Yeah, I didn't know about that. That either. Maybe just because like, I'm not like religious in a sense. I'm not like search these things out. I did see excite went to Winchester cathedral. And I think in the shop, they have like a sense of like, Jane Austen prayers, or something. And so I was like, oh, yeah, that was interesting. She was still like, written that make sense. But it doesn't it's a little bit like nowadays, if somebody was like a writer, but then also, like, wrote some songs or poems or something, I suppose it's similar. Like it would have been, like a quick outlet that you could have done. Yeah, like, quick, creative. And I think it was

Ann 16:05

just, you know, it was some so much more common back then. And you know, was her father growing up with her father? I think it's just, but I just think it's interesting her ability within any circle or any kind of person that she could just zero in on that hypocrisy and call it out. And I think that that really works so well with your Mr. Elton and furlough connection because I feel like that's what the Hunchback of Notre DOM is doing. They're calling out his hypocrisy that the people like as Marilla or quasi moto are actually better people, the outcasts are better people than the priests character in this

Izzy Meakin 16:41

movie. So true. Oh my gosh, yeah. That was a good son. No. Okay, so I don't know. Do you have any Cephalon for Mrs. Elton?

Ann 16:50

I don't because I just came up with the Evil Queen and magic mirror thing. So I

Izzy Meakin 16:54

loved by the way, which I love. So I did have a couple of Mrs. Elton sacrus So one on the list was the queen of hearts. And that was actually the queen of hearts with her husband. She's that tiny little man who follows around so I was like, Well, what made me think of this is I believe, Mr. Knightley makes a common to Emma, which is Mr. Elton was made smaller by Marian Mrs. Elton. And that's what made me think of this link because I was like, that's actually so true. Mrs. Elton, such a big character that Mr. Elton just becomes an even smaller man, or at least it shows his small man qualities being with Mrs. Elton. And yeah, I just think she's so ridiculous. And that's a little bit like the queen of hearts as well.

Ann 17:41

Yeah, I love it. I think that's absolutely perfect. And she, of course, she doesn't have that temper the off with your head kind of thing overtly, I feel as if boiling under the surface. She definitely gets really irritated at people and really mad when she's not given her due respect. And so I would imagine inside her mind, she's probably saying off with her heads all the time.

Izzy Meakin 18:04

Yeah. 100% like that, when she doesn't get the attention that she thinks she deserves, which is very similar to the Queen of Hearts. I think boxhill is a really good example of ALEC. She makes like strong comments to Emma because Emma's getting a lot of attention that day. And I think yeah, I agree. I think deep down she'd probably be she definitely want to take his head off for sure.

Ann 18:25

Well, and even if you think about it, how the Queen actually likes Alice at first or, or I think that it's sort of similar like she seems to want to be friends with Emma at first, but then also when she can't control her. It's like that's when she turns on her but then in a way she also kind of takes in Jane Fairfax in that similar sort of like, Oh, you poor thing. I'm McLean and I'll I'll take you in as long as you play play the game by my rules.

Izzy Meakin 18:52

Yes, so true. Yeah, no, that's such a feeling as well. And I love that and then I just had like one more on the list Mrs. Elton that was chorale devel. And that was basically because of how weird this is. Elton is about certain things. Like she's like so just got a brand new Bruce like she's just so materialistic. And I think that's like, in kind of over the top with it. And I think that's so similar to like Cruella de Vil where she's new desperate to have all this for in. She's quite eccentric. And yeah, just a bit of like an odd person that you probably wouldn't want in your house. You could like oh my gosh, When's she gonna leave kind of similar to

Ann 19:30

misuse? You know, you say that it's so interesting. I swear I read something. Maybe it was in my notes in my Oxford edition of Emma I cannot remember but I swear that there was something saying that there are little allusions if you look between the lines that her family's money came from, like, the islands were their slavery, slavery was still allowed or something like that. So if you think about it, like curl is like weird, crazy thing with the puppies like really scary, like connections. That's like almost a sin. similar kind of thing that like a really cruel connection to the way that her family got their money.

Izzy Meakin 20:06

Oh my gosh, you knew that wouldn't surprise me. I feel like it a lot of Austen's book she really I feel like she really emphasises that she thinks people who were involved in slave the slave trade and slavery weren't very nice people because I feel like that really comes through a monster park or how toxic is the family because all of their money comes from slavery as well. Like I feel like Austen definitely between the lines really speaks to her views on that.

Ann 20:32

Yeah, I think so too. And I swear, if I'm wrong, I may be wrong, but I swear when I was the last time I read Emma that there was like a little note that I saw that that was making those connections but if not, it wouldn't surprise me because Mrs. Eldon does have that kind of like cruel streak like Krewella

Izzy Meakin 20:49

agreed agree it Yeah, absolutely. Okay fab that was given case that the first two down and the only one I have on my list for me is Frank Churchill. I'm really excited about Frank Churchill because I feel like I got some like good ones I was like, excited about but you go First you tell me you got for Frank Churchill. Well, I

Ann 21:09

always think of like the whole Hans thing again, because he tried to trick Emma into thinking that he likes her just in the same way that Hans tries to trick Ana into thinking that he likes her. I feel like Hans is I feel like Hans and guests on were like, just inspired by all the Austen men. Not all lost men, of course, but all the awesome villainous men. But a more unusual one that I had was Dr. facili. A from the princess in the frog, because he's full of metaphorical magic tricks. And he makes things appear other than what they are. And I feel like that's what Frank Churchill is. He's a he's a game player. He's a magician. He's kind of a con artist. He's got all this magic metaphorical magic up his sleeve to make everyone think that he likes Emma when he really likes Jane and the little word game that he plays like he's doing all of these metaphorical little slights of hands. So I thought that worked well with him.

Izzy Meakin 22:04

I love that. That's awesome. I didn't know think about when it all but I really like it's so true. I look for the sleight of hand that is absolutely Frank Church where he's constantly thinking of ways that he can kind of you know, cover up his seat. It's like secret secret isn't I mean must have been exhausted. No wonder you had like that stress out that day, when they went to pick strawberries because the amount of like Secrets and Lies he was trying to keep hold off is ridiculous. I can't even imagine.

Ann 22:33

So yeah, he's just kind of constantly glamorising everybody in the town, his father, he's just kind of always putting that glamour magic on, on everybody.

Izzy Meakin 22:43

And yeah, all if the, like, the consequences of what he's doing is constantly on his back, which again, is really similar structure. faciliated he's got those his friends on the other side, like constantly watching. Yeah, I mean, like, you know, this is all gonna backfire on you if you don't sort it out. And I feel like, you know, obviously, Frank doesn't suffer consequences, really, for what happens, but I can I can imagine that he has that thing like over his shoulder being like, if this doesn't work out, this is what's going to happen, or these are the consequences of what you you could do here.

Ann 23:12

Yeah, exactly. I agree. I mean, in a way, I mean, Jane Fairfax is the only person who really knows all of his lies. And so while she's like the person that he's in love with, and she does love him, she's also probably that person, kind of like, what are you doing? Because that all kind of explodes at the Box Hill. It's just the Box Hill picnic where that kind of all explodes and you storm

Izzy Meakin 23:31

return? Again, I think they both strawberry picking?

Ann 23:36

Yeah. And I think that is kind of like she knows, she knows like, she's the only person who knows what he's doing. And you know, it's kind of destroying their relationship from the inside. And even though he's trying to save their relationship, just like Doctor facilities trying to like save himself or, you know, he's out for himself. It's just sort of like the things that you're doing are actually like, causing your own destruction. Or keeping you from getting what you want.

Izzy Meakin 23:59

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I left out. Okay, should I tell you to tell you mine? Yes. I would love to hear yours. Okay. I feel like I again, I feel like you're taking a slightly different approach. And this is only because I struggled to see Frank is a full on villain. And I knew some people really dislike him really hate him for how he is with Jane. And I slightly struggled to see him that way. Because I feel like it more comes from a place of immaturity as opposed to molift that he's not I don't think he's malicious in the sense that like Wickham is or and I don't know if he's money hungry is Willoughby, but I think he is immature. And I think he is cautious that the wealth that he has isn't secure. Because obviously he came he had to go to them with his arms. And I do think from an expense as well. He's thinking actually, for me to marry Jane, I actually do need to hold on to that money, otherwise he wouldn't be able to marry Jane, because Jane comes from nothing. Yeah. So I don't think he's malicious like some of the other met like villain men. But I do think he has this kind of like darker side and hurts people in. He's just foolish and hurts people because he doesn't think things out properly. So my first link to Frank Churchill is Jack Skellington from Nightmare Before Christmas.

Ann 25:22

Oh, that's great. I like that

Izzy Meakin 25:24

though. He's seen as like the good one. And he is technically like the protagonist of the film, but he actually hurts a lot of people in what he's doing. And he doesn't even realise. And he's like, really popular, like Frank cares. And he kind of controls what people end up doing. So very similar to Frank in the ball, he kind of dictate some things that's going on. And that's very similar to Jack in the town, that he obviously tries to convince everybody to, like, meet Chris, they do kind of a second Christmas Town. They kind of like similar in the way that they can, like, manipulate the people around them. But then also, I found like Jack loves like a quieter, talented woman who he doesn't listen to because he still just goes off and does his own thing. And she just was there like in the background supporting him. And that's really similar to like, Jane, like the fact that Frank loves Jane and she's in the background. They're supporting him. She's very talented, but she is quieter and I feel like the extroverted pneus of Frank overpowers Jane at times, and I think that's really the same as Jack and I've tried to think I can't remember her name is now. Sally Sally? Yes. Oh, my goodness.

Ann 26:36

I couldn't remember. I could see a lot in common with Jane and Sally like that. I could really see that. That's so good. Yeah,

Izzy Meakin 26:43

so I thought that was the first link. Uh, yeah, I was like, I could see that that being the case. And then my second one was Peter Pan. And yeah, so I took some elements of this because I feel like Yes, Peter Pan again is a protagonist but there's a lot that Peter Pan does that it's really not good at all and not nice and easy. Yeah, read the original book it's actually much darker and he said to be like knock it off all the the Lost Boys and stuff so the the original like book is actually really dark. But the even the Disney one I think really shows that Peter Pan isn't necessarily this good person. So he's not perfect. He is childish. He flirts with other women like have a girls around him and upset her makes people jealous. And so in when the mermaids tried to drown, Wendy, the key things that's really funny, and I think that's so similar to like, stuff that Frank does that he thinks things are funny. In they're just, they're not funny. It's just you being immature, in and then the other link that I had with him was I thought that Tiger Lily was a little bit like Emma, and like she's the princess in like, on Neverland. Yes. And Peter flirts and has loads of fun with Tiger Lily, but he doesn't realise how much that actually upsets Wendy in Wendy's, they're like getting really upset about it. And Peter just is carry on flirting with Tigerlily and she like kisses him and stuff and Wendy's like getting infuriated by it. And I feel like it's so similar to the way that Frank Church there's with MF M is this, you know, basically the princess of Highbury. And Wendy's this new comer, like Jane is this new comer into the town and Wendy sat on the sidelines looking at what's happening and she's you know, devastated. And that's really similar to J and especially at Box Hill where she has to watch on as Frank flirts with Emma. And there's nothing she could do about it one because it's a secret, but to even if it wasn't a secret, would she? Would she make a fuss about it in that kind of society when everybody there loves Emma.

Ann 28:49

Oh my gosh, I love that. That might be one of the best ones so far than Peter Pan. Oh my gosh, it's just it makes so much sense because Wendy has so much in common with Jane. She's just very sweet. And I mean, I know that Wendy maybe has a little bit more of a spunky personality, but I don't know. I love it. It's it's great. She's being banished to the nursery, like Jane is going to be banished to be a governess. If she does not. Yeah, this is good. I like it.

Izzy Meakin 29:16

Yeah. So we're things like Frank isn't my like the villainous villains, but I think yeah, but lucky enough that there's in Disney. There are some protagonists that are a little bit maybe villainous, a little bit immature, and you know, it causes it causes problems.

Ann 29:33

Yeah, I see that. And I feel that way about Frank too. I feel like I at least admire the fact that he did marry the woman that he loved. And I do think that he loves Jane, but oh my gosh, I don't think that marriage is gonna be very happy because of unless he really really grows and changes because he is definitely a Peter Pan. Z to the

Izzy Meakin 29:53

I mean, I mean, I personally would not be putting up with that I would not be happening at all I can't even imagine But yeah, I don't know, it'd be interesting to see maybe maybe he grows up in Mary and Jane, I don't know. And also, I'd love to know what actually happened when they met like Weymouth, like what their story was. Because I can't see them having much in common. So I'm so confused what they bonded over.

Ann 30:18

And maybe it was just the fact that he was so charming and teasing and all those sorts of things, and she's a little bit more introverted, and maybe he just kind of like, brought out her playful side, I'm sure there are people who have written books about their relationship. I feel like I've heard about, you know, all those different kinds of spin off Jane Austen books, it would just be, it would be really interesting, though, to know what Jane actually thought about that relationship. And that makes me actually think about have you ever read this book, it's called the Jane Austen Guide to Dating and I hate all the modern stuff, because I'm not really interested in dating books. But it's actually written by someone who studied courtship, I think in graduate school. And so I think it was sort of like a way for them to sell a book to be like, I'll add on all these like modern dating like things. But those sections that are just about the Jane Austen characters, she analyses like the bad relationships and the good relationships. And there's a whole interesting section in that book about Jane and Frank Churchill. And I love that this author really points out how Jane shows us what makes a good relationship and what's going to make a bad relationship and how people can make each other better or make each other worse. And then I just I find that fascinating was all of the relationships and awesome ensembles.

Izzy Meakin 31:32

Oh my gosh, that sounds so good, though. Literally.

Ann 31:35

Yeah. It really is. Like, even if you don't want anything with like the dating, like I skipped over the little parts that are like, here's how you could put this into application. I just literally read the analyses of, of the characters. And it's been such a long time since I read it. But I remember that there was a lot of interesting analysis about how Frank Churchill doesn't quite make the mark. Like it was kind of saying like, in real life, this would probably not work out very well. Long term.

Izzy Meakin 31:58

No, no, absolutely. Yeah. 100% I definitely couldn't put up but then maybe I can say like, I wouldn't put up with that because I've read Austen and I'm like, actually what I want to Frank Churchill or what I want to Mr. Darcy, and what am I willing to put up with? You know, Amy, they really learn a lesson from Jane and we're like, you know, this is good. This is bad and I'm not ready to settle for a frank. So yeah, exactly. Yeah, I totally get that. Great. So that wraps up enter that was everybody on my list for enter. So that is another Disney times Austen episode wrapped up and we will be back with the next instalment. I think it's going to come out after Halloween. Because I've got some Halloween inspired content prepared for you guys. But the next book on the list is persuasion. And here is a preview of that episode. First character I have on the list of persuasion is Walter Elliot.

Ann 32:52

Also I thought of easement from the Emperor's New Groove

Izzy Meakin 32:57

Yeah, he's a he's a tough one. He's a tough one. I feel like we don't know enough about my scandalous to work for a living Captain hakase emotionally vulnerable and self centered eccentric stuck in the past which I think is really similar to similar to Ali

Ann 33:11

a Prince Charming thing on the surface until you until you read the book a little further. Elizabeth

Izzy Meakin 33:15

she very much mirrors the father. I

Ann 33:17

love that that's a great one. I never would have thought of that one. You're right.

Izzy Meakin 33:21

Thanks. Head over to my Instagram at will be Austen for all the updates and for all the fans info that will be in the bio. So go ahead and check all of her content out. Her YouTube stuff is great and also on Instagram as well. So I will see you in the next episode.

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